It is true that your maximum heart rate is lower in a course in the outrigger than with running or cycling?
The difference is about 10 hartbeats. How hard I train it's never above the 180. And with running of cycling it's 195.
Submitted by Ronnie den Boer on Mon, 06/22/2009 - 8:12am
Definitely agree. On the bike you're using way more muscle mass, therefore higher HR.
#1 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 8:24am
Definitely lower max w/ paddling. A few guys I've known claim that they can attain max heart rate while paddling, but that seems to be the exception.
#2 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 8:40am
For me, since I am just learning it, stand up paddling keeps my heart rate up really high. I believe that when I get more efficient on it , then my heart rate will drop. But if that occurs, I still believe that it will be much easier for me to keep my average and max heart rate higher on a stand up then an oc-1. I think it has to do with the simple fact that I am standing.
For instance, I heard that if you swim, you can never get your max heart rate as high then when you run or bike. Has to do with physiology I guess. Your heart does not have to work as hard pumping blood borizontally rather than vertically.
So maybe the simple fact that you are sitting rather than standing while working out, lowers your max heart rate.
#3 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 9:10am
My HR is higher when I'm on a surfski and lower when on a V1.
#4 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 9:34am
Ski has a higher stroke rate so it makes sense that you'd run a higher HR.
#5 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 9:36am
Based on my own experience and what I've read over the years, the reason may be that we arn't pushing as hard? Try to really crank it up and see? Switch to a longer shaft or wider blade. Also going downwind, my HR is higher than going upwind (surprising). Maybe, it's because I start to slack off and settle into a comfortable rhythm going upwind or I go faster downwind? Main thing is to make sure your stroke is efficient and you are feeling the same pressure stroke after stroke, ie: you are not mixing paint. Yes, mixing paint is what we're actually doing when we start to push it, for our stroke deteriorates and gets sloppy. This is reflected in our heartrate, which stays way below its MHR. So even if we think we're pushing harder, we're not moving any faster, and our heart knows it.
#6 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 10:51am
Below is a chart of the metabolic demands of various sporting activities in elite level athletes and highlights one of the reasons why the average MaxHR, statistically speaking, is higher for running as opposed to other activites... the other factors affecting mHR also mentioned by others include body position, etc.
Your mHR will differ between different activities but the highest percent of your mHR that you can race/train at will help to determine your level of success and it appears that is ultimately what you are interested in?
Here's an article that seems related to what you are asking...
http://tinyurl.com/cf9geq
Hope that helps
#7 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 11:50am
@pk
Interesting, I wonder how that differs in oc6 vs oc1? OC6 is more like doing squats or lunges and the legs are not as horizontal. Better chance you could reach mhr in oc6?
#8 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 12:01pm
I'm not sure that OC-6 would be significantly different in metabolic cost from OC-1 but if others have a differing view, bus 'um out =)
#9 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 12:27pm
Think about which muscles are being used in the above chart and you can see that running, cycling and rowing are higher because you are using leg muscles.
Swimming, canoeing and kayaking HR are lower since less leg muscles are being used and more upper body strength.
Doing OC6 would push your HR a bit higher than OC1 in that you do actually use your legs more bracing and switching each time you changeover. In OC1, you tend to just shift your drive in the legs with little movement depending on the side you are paddling on, but in a surfski from watching several videos, they use/have more leg movement on every stroke which would explain the higher HR.
Larger muscles need more blood pumped to them and your heart can only pump X amount of blood with each beat.
#10 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 1:14pm
I think we have unique opportunity here. A lot of the members to this site have heart rate monitors and paddle both OC1 and OC6.
So, let’s perform an experiment.
Everyone interested, wear your heart rate monitor while paddling and enter your data on this site or designate someone and email your results to them. That person can compile the data into a spread sheet and post the results.
Personal info should include, sex, (that’s not a yes or no question), age, OC1 or OC6, max heart rate, average heart rate, length of paddling run, and anything else you guys can think of.
Over time I think we could get some great in-site into the physical demands of this sport.
#11 Mon, 06/22/2009 - 7:38pm
The ultimate would be to have a central repository of data collection from a website that can import data directly from the Garmin that also maps out the course so others can view and follow the same course for comparative measures. i.e. Hawai'i Kai run, buoy to buoy workouts, ala wai 1000m course sprint work, Lanikai triangle course etc.
#12 Tue, 06/23/2009 - 11:28am
Attached my training this morning. I train every morning from Monday to Friday at 6 pm. and in the weekend 2 * 20km.
In the area were i train is a lot of current. You can see exactly were I make a u-turn around a buoy and paddling upstream or downstream.
The last piece I made a final sprint and then my maximum heart rate was 181.
Avg 163, total distance 8km, 33 years
Attached 2 screenshot from garmin training center incl *.tcx format for import in garmin training center or google eart.
#13 Wed, 06/24/2009 - 8:19am
Ronnie,
Which Garmin heart rate monitor are you using?
#14 Wed, 06/24/2009 - 10:06am
OC1 driver,
Garmin 305
#15 Wed, 06/24/2009 - 10:09am
Right on 181, now you're pushing it. Remember the paddling stroke is concentric and not eccentric as in running. On a bicycle, even though it is concentric, you can click on the bigger gears to get your heart rate up. In paddling, you don't have that option, for you're pushing against water. So it is up to you to find where you feel the most pressure (resistance) on the blade to get your heart rate up and maintain it. Otherwise, you're just stirring paint (as in smaller gears for bicycle).
#16 Wed, 06/24/2009 - 11:20am
Ronnie, that looks like dutch language - are you training in the Netherlands? What kinda OC-1 are you using?
#17 Wed, 06/24/2009 - 12:11pm
Yes, I live in the Netherlands. My outirigger is a Allwave Helium. Paddling in the OC1 sinds summer '07. Best place in a race was in may '09 in Italy. 8e place on European Championchip.
Here in Netherland are about 20 paddlers and just 1 outriggercanoe club. For my it is about 2 hours in the care to the club. That is not an option for me, so therefore I always train alone. My village is situated on the sea, therefore ideal conditions.
#18 Thu, 06/25/2009 - 7:38am
Here's my GPS and heart rate from the Kal Challenge near Vernon, BC. OC-1 Race was 10 km's, flat calm. I'm 47 years old, 193 lbs. Average speed = 10.7 km/h; average heart rate = 145. I think that's pretty close to what my heart rate should be.
The spot where my speed drops down to 6 km/h at around 21 minutes is when my ipod earphone dropped out of my ear. It was a great song, so I made a strategic decision to stop and put it back in. I thought about it for a while. But too much thinking was slowing me down....
#19 Thu, 06/25/2009 - 1:23pm
"Based on my own experience and what I’ve read over the years, the reason may be that we arn’t pushing as hard?"
I'm pondering this as well. My thought has always been that i haven't developed enough paddling shape in and efficient enough paddling mechanics...so my 'perceived effort' feels higher than what it should be at a given heart rate. Not sure if that makes sense or not.
The flipside then becomes if you get in shape and develop efficient paddling mechanics, perceived effort should be lower than the actual power you generate at a given heart rate.
Not sure if that makes sense or not...its thursday afternoon, i'm sitting in the office and the surf is pumping outside.
#20 Thu, 06/25/2009 - 3:35pm
This is my heart rate from my last two races. In the 1st race I became 1st and in the second race i became 2nd.
In the second race, you can see exactly where I take my rest behind another paddler and when I make a sprint.
avg 183 and max 192
#21 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 7:29am
I did Mark Allens method of aerobic heart rate training, but in a shorter time frame of six months, and noticed huge results in my technique and stroke efficiency, when it came to staying in my anarobic rate for longer periods I could go an hour open ocean OC-1 at 170 avg. and maxing 195 (I hit 205 dodging a breaching whale, lol) and not be too winded after. In OC-6 regatta season this year, in races I avg. 185 to 200 and training varied depending on workouts. I think the hardest part of that kind of training was staying in your aerobic zone watching everybody who wasn't jam by you. Even though I noticed some results doing this type of base training, I was wondering if paddling dictated any different zone setups to match an efficient hull speed/power ratio.
Now I hear some talking about elevating your heart rate quickly to like 180 and staying there working longer and longer time thresholds. I'm kind old school "no pain, no gain" style so all this is new to me.
But after reading Allens training I was intrigued by how efficient he got with the same heart rate.
http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460
#22 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 9:17am
Ronnie - your second race HR profile was pretty steady within 10 bpms - what was the water/wind conditions like?
Are you able to also plot the speed with the HR - it would be interesting to see if you can maintain a lower heart rate at the same rate of speed as your training improves during the course of the season for the given course and distance. I notice the Garmin software does not allow a plot of time and distance on the same graph.
Fluidpaddler - how did you determine the stroke efficiency improvement? What quantifying measures did you use? That was an interesting article - especially that part where Mark Allen mentions about those 5 min miles for 10k after biking and swimming! great reading!
#23 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 6:21pm
Fluidpaddler - just finished reading tht article - it brings an interesting point home - building the oxidative enzymes and more specifically, the "brown cells" - mitochondria - the energy workhorse - you can check this out as well -
http://www.lactate.com/pilact3.html
Endurance base is also important in maintaining technique for the long haul of distance season and why tempo training and drills are so effective in developing long term success for technique and physiology and minimizes injury.
#24 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 6:30pm