Morning,
Does anyone know if there are companies making aftermarket rudders for OC1s. Our club Huki OC2s have a tiny carbon rudders for flat days that we often swap on and are done by Huki. I have a Zephyr with a weedless and larger surf rudder and was looking for a similar flat water set-up that OC does not have.
Any Ideas.....
Submitted by Just Paddle on Tue, 06/30/2009 - 6:26am
Hey Just Paddle,
I actually do some work making aftermarket rudders for OC-1's, OC-2's, and occasionally surfski's as well. Send me a private message with your email and I can answer any questions and help you get set up with what you want.
#1 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 6:41am
One word: machete.
...hope your credit score's good.
#2 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 6:44am
Just Paddle,
You might check with Jude @ Huki again 'cause he has the ability to convert his blades to various other applications.
NB 1376, Please send me what you are working on if / when you get a chance.
aloha,
pog
#3 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 10:54am
Would a really small rudder work on a zephyr? Because of the rocker and the cut away in the tail, I wonder if a small rudder would get any real contact with the water flow, or if it would just be lost behind the large displacement of the front of the canoe.
Maybe one of you guys with strong hydrodynamic knowledge can chime in.
#4 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 11:44am
On my old V1X I always ran a 4" rudder on flat water. Obviously when it gets windy or you're surfing you need more, but it was plenty for mellow conditions.
#5 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 11:58am
Ya Jibofo, the little carbon ruder on the Huki oc2 set up was 3-4 inches max. On any waves it usually was just in the air doing sfa. But on the flats it's all ya need.
#6 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 1:24pm
Boat Aid has produced a small, low profile and thin rudder. it was created for flat water and Time Trials. I used in a recent TT and shed a couple of minutes off my TT. Boat Aid has also created custom rudders for medium to large water conditions.
These rudders are custom designs, and to fit most OC-1 and OC-2 canoes.
Give Boat Aid an email. he is in Newport Beach, Ca
#7 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 1:28pm
What happend to Boat aid ?
The last version I saw ( from a picture ) must not have been the final version 'cause it was pretty rough.
aloha,
pog
#8 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 1:48pm
I got a rudder fron nb1376 for my old Kaku and it works great. Sheds the kelp and weeds and I've used it in everything from raging winds to flat. Real versatile and promply delivered by nb.
#9 Tue, 06/30/2009 - 3:40pm
Good horrors!!!! Club canoes should never be equipped with rudders, for it goes against the grain. The art and skill of paddling a canoe can never be fully appreciated if rudders are used. Pride in tradition and culture should be emphasized. So return to the "stoneage" and learn to paddle the "old style" way without rudder. You'll develop powerful paddling muscles that will remain dormant and wasted if not used.
ps: A V-1 with a rudder? Now that's a crime!!!!!!!!!
#10 Wed, 07/01/2009 - 8:59am
Any photos of these little beauties?
#11 Wed, 07/01/2009 - 12:30pm
Actually Im not making the machete anymore. I found that the molded rudders defeated the purpose of a custom rudder in that it inhibits experimentation and fine tuning/adjustments. Im hand foiling all rudders from G-10 with a super thin foil that, as Ruben said, is shedding 5-8% off their time trials. The advantage of making truly custom rudders is that it can be made for the specific paddler, boat and conditions. The TT is about .150 inches thick and the surf rudders about .200-.300..... depending on the severity of conditions. Dave Spitzer Did very well on the rudders last season here in Cali. I believe he won the winter series. If there are any interested Hawaiian paddlers who are skilled surfers itd be kinda cool to get a rudder in their hands for testing and feed back.
#12 Sun, 07/05/2009 - 9:49pm
Custom rudder is a nice thing for experimenting on diferent conditions but gains of 5-8% on the actual race time is imposible unless you built in some kind of electric motor for propulsion. Rudder adds cca 3% overall drag to the boat and differences beteween different rudders is less than 1% in overal drag,and that is more a factor of size than shape. So it is not something that can improve time so drasticaly(realisticly should be in fractions of a %) but is one of the few things that you can improve on the boat(the bailers are the other ) especialy if you have certain paddling conditions that favor different rudders,surfing,flats,loots of weeds ,shalows etc.
#13 Mon, 07/06/2009 - 10:45am
I think youre right that race conditions would see different results. The TT are done in flat protected conditions. Wind and tide do play a part but it is definitely more of a controlled environment. However I suspect that substantial performance improvements would translate into a race. If you were to increase your existing rudder by 4 times i believe that would drastically change the paddlers results were the paddler to take the exact same route with the "stock" rudder. Like wise if the paddler uses a rudder that is a 1/4 of the "stock" rudder drag I think the paddler will see an improvement over the exact route. Thats what im trying to find out anyways. Im just having fun making a rudder with the smallest drag equation while still doing its job of offering directional changes when needed or stability or whatever.........
From what ive seen theres no doubt about the gains to be had, the problem lies in compromising the integrity of the rudder as its pushed to the outer edge of the performance envelope. Obviously if you could have a rudder that had zero drag that would be ideal. That of course is impossible but im just trying to get as close as possible.....much like the canoe builders have done with the exceptionally light and delicate laminates that comprise the hull, except for me its just a hobby
#14 Mon, 07/06/2009 - 12:17pm
i think my math must be wrong...
8% drop in time would mean in a 30 minute time trial one would drop 2.4 minutes. so a change of a rudder would make me almost 2.5 minutes faster over a 30 minute flat water no wind no current course?
by this reasoning, if i paddle a rudderless canoe, my flat water time trial numbers should be unbelievably faster. say what, 10-15% better with the ultimate of zero rudder drag.
sweet!
#15 Mon, 07/06/2009 - 1:17pm
yeah, you should try it and let us know. that would be the ultimate tell. I think it might be a wash in the particular TT that these guys ran cuz there are several hard turns but ive never paddled a V1 rudderless so i dont know how difficult it is to make a tight 90 degree turn. But I bet if you were to do a straight 5-10K in flat calm water between a V1 and an OC1 with a stock rudder there would prolly be at least 10-15% difference.
#16 Mon, 07/06/2009 - 2:42pm
well i've paddled a rudderless canoe and a ruddered canoe on a canal on oahu. i did not measure a set distance. but i did paddle both boats with a gps and heart rate monitor. in either case my speed vs heart rate was pretty much the same. i didn't crunch a bunch of numbers so i can't say for sure if it was 1% or 15% or neither. but to my untrained eye i paddled both boats the same speed with the same heart rate. perhaps this could be to me not being used to the rudderless style or the fact that i just plain suck.
#17 Mon, 07/06/2009 - 10:36pm
Interesting thoughts... Hey Aquafiend,,, As far as my limited experience goes in a V1 or my Oc1 with out a rudder ... 90 degree turns are not that difficult but they may occur unrequested!
I am planning a distance race of about 100 km in my oc1 and am looking for some rudder help but the least drag I can have. I'd be happy with a 1% reduction in drag over the hrs I will be in the seat.
#18 Tue, 07/07/2009 - 6:40am
What's the race, just paddle?
#19 Tue, 07/07/2009 - 7:12am
Hey Jim, it's a freshwater race calle "Length of the lake" Details on the race are on the CORA schedule see below.
Not sure where you are but it's in Canada, see the race schedule for all the races, Most are Ocean but some like this are inland...
http://www.canadianoutrigger.com/schedule.cfm
#20 Tue, 07/07/2009 - 7:19am
Id be happy to help you develop a rudder specifically for your boat and this race. You can PM me or do it through this thread if others would like to follow along.
#21 Tue, 07/07/2009 - 10:38am