Since the State regatta just got completed, I want to again bring up possible changes to have the regatta end at a resonable time. That means eliminating races and cutting distances down.
keep the kids race distance format the same, but eliminate the 12 mix race and the 15's race. Just go with 12, 14, 16, 18.
For all the hero's races, men and women, keep the Freshman to Senior races, but have everyone just go a mile.
Novice races stay the same.
For the kupuna's, keep the 40, 50, 60's men and women, but put the 40's race at a half mile.
For the mixes, have kids mix 18 under, hero's mix open and 50's mix.
Start the comments coming. Just a jumping off point. We gotta do something to come down from 39 events, and hopefully have our state regatta end at a reasonable time. Also, eliminate classified and unclassified paddlers. One rule, everyone can paddle only two races as long as within age limit...period.
Come on Hawaii guys, share you mana'o...
JawsOut.
Submitted by RatchetJaws on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 3:08pm
I agree, but get rid of all the mixes accept for the kids. Eliminate open 4 as well(We should cut back to about 30 races). Also have the Sr. Men and women's races count for more regatta points so that everyone races their best crew in that race instead of going freshmen & Jr. Lastly what you could do is have a glass boat added and while one crew is racing the next is paddling out to the line(Obviously not being on the race course). Every other week you rotate between glass and koa. Oahu's and Sates would be all Koa and a longer day. Oh and no boat holders just to eliminate all the recent drama and change the start to a simple green flag with a gun shot so no one crew can get rolling starts.
#1 Wed, 08/05/2009 - 3:38pm
Those are some good thoughts which have been mentioned before. The changeover between races is what burns a lot of time shortening 4 races by a half mile would only save about 16 minutes over the whole day. The way to go is no mix or open 4 races. The staging idea was brought up by Kala Kukea in 1988 after we came back from the Canoe Kayak Nationals. They are able to run way more races in way less time using staging.
#2 Wed, 08/05/2009 - 7:00pm
the staging seems to work well at the high school state regatta as well. change overs are much quicker.
#3 Wed, 08/05/2009 - 8:51pm
Jaws et al:
What time would be optimal for a regatta to end?
What would you think to an earlier start time (than 9:00am for States)?
Staging could be a huge win time wise:
- No checking between races (the card check would be performed whilst the previous race was running or after a crew has exited the canoe in the staging area. (-1 minute)
- Staging area close to the start/finish so no having to wait for the canoe that has to paddle the length of the beach to the furthest tent. (-1.5 minutes)
- Staging area close to the start/finish so reduce the "by rule" time gap between races from 5 minutes to three minutes. (-2 minutes)
40X(1+1.5+2) = 180 = 3 hours!
Well, optimistically anyway :-)
The downside is you would need an area of beach large enough to host the staging area, which would have to be roped off.
Jonathan
#4 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 8:42am
The staging idea was tried a year or two ago at some of the Hui Wa‘a races. While good in theory, it didn't seem to actually save much time. It was hard for so many canoes to land in such a small part of the beach and the resulting traffic jam seemed to eat up any time that was saved from not having to paddle down to the other end of the beach. The downside was that crews had to be there so early that they couldn't cheer on other races and didn't have team support when they came in for their races.
While regattas are always a long day, it is really worth it to eliminate races just to be able to open a cold one a little earlier? The mixed races and open 4 allow people to participate that wouldn't make a crew otherwise. Perhaps that is ok. Perhaps we just want the best of the best racing. I tend to think that regatta should remain as inclusive as possible since so many more paddlers participate in regattas than in distance races.
#5 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 8:59am
I love staging....have been to a few World Sprints and the one that really stood out for me was New Zealand. That was one well oiled event from start to finish.
The problem with staging is the koa boats and the interchanging and borrowing of boats. For a true staging format to be successful, we would have to have a state race without using the koa boats. With staging, as they do in the world sprints, 3 sets of IDENTICAL canoes are used. One set on the line, one set paddling out to the line, and one set loading. You can only acheive this with fiberglass canoes that are the same. If there were 8 lanes, we would need 24 canoes. Can you image clubs just turning over their koa canoe to be used as one of the 24 chosen boats?? And besides that, the koa's are not the same.
So, until we go to identical fiberglass boats, Mirage or Bradley's for our state regatta, no way staging going work. Which leaves us to cutting races out or cut back on the distance. BTW...I would be for leaving the koa boats home for states, use identical fiberglass boats, and incorporate staging. Just my mana'o.
As for the scoring, I like giving the hero's more points for the Freshman - Senior men/women races. These guys/gals are the elite and deserve that recognition.
JawsOut.
#6 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:13am
From a purely competetive perspective, the state championships format can most definitely be improved.
The Hawaiian Canoe Racing Association meets every October to look at ways to improve the one event it hosts, the HCRA state championships. Through input from it's 6 member associations, those proposed changes are voted on by a representative from each of the 65+ member clubs at the HCRA annual meeting in December. The members of each of those clubs help guide the HCRA state championships with their vote.
From a cultural and traditional perspective, the HCRA state championships help all of us who participate guide our sport and maintain our identity.
The Koa canoe is a Hawaiian canoe, and is the main reason we are able to call this a Hawaiian sport. To lose the participation of the Koa canoe in the state championships would be to lose the soul of our sport. There are many ways we can improve on the way our state championship is run. Not having the beauty and excitement of 14 Koa canoes lined up next to and racing with each other would not be an improvement.
#7 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 3:19pm
I am all for updating the format and doing whatever it takes to hold a better event but not using Koa's should not even be a discussion. If people want fiberglass regatta's - they should go to California in my opinion. Im all for relaxing the rules for canoe specs in distance season but Koa's for regatta will never go.
#8 Thu, 08/06/2009 - 11:08pm
I totally agree with jpi and MikeA. The States need to have our Koa's. Canoe paddling is a HAWAIIAN sport and Koa is HAWAIIAN. Let's not have anymore talk of getting rid of the Koa canoes!!!!!!
#9 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 4:54am
You want the states regatta to run better all you gotta do is run it in Hilo every year..we have the parking , the hotels, and the beach front, water is calm allowing for good time, if not make it come here more often than every 7 years.
#10 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 9:01am
israelsr....
If you guys can get us out of there by 5:00 p.m. every state regatta, and have the airlines cut a break on cost to get to Hilo, then I'm there. Hilo it is....
It was a very well run regatta...but like ALL state regatta's, it is ridiculously too long.
JawsOut.
#11 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 9:57am
Run the race over two days in stead of trying to do it all in one day
#12 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 10:07am
I agree with Mike A regarding the states. One long regatta is tolerable for all, as it is the States. Still look at eliminating the previously mentioned races. However, keep the Koas in the States, but consider the staging for the regattas leading up to the States.
#13 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 10:51am
The time advantages I mentioned earlier were assuming using one koa canoe per club, and yet they still had the potential to make a sizable impact.
Jonathan
#14 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 11:36am
I like the two day format....don't know if the officials can handle it.
Youth Division day 1...adults day 2.
that would work.
JawsOut.
#15 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 11:48am
A one day States with Koa only, no staging, but fewer race would work fine. Let all of the Associations do their own deal with staging etc. Bottom line is to have fewer races at the States.
#16 Fri, 08/07/2009 - 6:21pm