Voting

Just wondering how the paddling community is going to vote today. If we are as divided as the rest of the country, or if we all go one way mor then the other. Keizo you should make a quick poll so that people can say who they are voting for anonymously. I know that this has nothing to do with paddling, but I am just curious and there haven't been any new posts lately.

Submitted by nekine on Tue, 11/02/2004 - 7:45am



if bush wins i'm moving to canada.....
for anyone undecided or not voting.... we all as paddlers pretty much live in the ocean (or i live in a polluted resevoir in southern california... but i think about the ocean) and look at what Bush is doing to the environment...
theres a small chance that the entire election could depend on hawaii so we all gotta make sure to go vote...


#1 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 7:48am


Oh yeah, I never said who I was voting for. KERRY


#2 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 7:55am


kerry


#3 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 8:06am


[b][color=darkblue][/color]Aloha everyone, as long as we vote. It is in our best interest to get out to the polls and then do a paddle to reflect. As for who I voted for well in this house hold 2 to Kerry 0 for Boosh[/b]


#4 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 8:48am


sure why not, we can do a poll.

http://www.ocpaddler.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Polls&file=index...


#5 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 9:41am


Well Im stuck deployed in Afghanistan away from any water and i wouldn't trust Kerry to do anything good. He voted against funding for us troops body armor and blamed it on Bush. God knows I miss paddling and home Hilo, HI. Go vote it's your right. Missing the water, aloha all, enjoy your freedom cause it's better than you all realise!


#6 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 11:05am


thank you for portecting our freedoms raiderpaddler, i am sure that we all aprreciate what you guys are doing over there.


#7 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 11:40am


[quote="nevslin"]thank you for portecting our freedoms raiderpaddler, i am sure that we all aprreciate what you guys are doing over there.[/quote]
agreed.


#8 Tue, 11/02/2004 - 11:54am


For those that believe Bush (Repubs?) is/are the reason that our oceans and waters are so foul...
Take a moment to ponder the whole political machine and the news media that funnels the "unbiased" information that we make the basis of our opinions on.
What really drives these organizations? What is their agenda?
I personally believe they all want something that does not match up with the typical paddlers priorities.
I voted utilizing an age old, scientifically challenged method.
My "gut" said pick the one you think is the MOST honest, go with it and pray for the best.
Oh yeah, as long as we continue to use Mother Earth's resources at the rate we are now, it won't matter who's in office.
Mahalo, for the opportunity and right as an American to spew.


#9 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 4:10am


I went with the gut test as well.
My gut told me to look at both of them as people. One wants to put a provision in our countrys bylaws to ban gay people from ever being able to marry because it is against his religion, while the other, though it's against his religion as well, says that he would never impose his religion upon other people. One of them has been the worst president in history in terms of the environment, and the other has one of the best voting recrods in the senate for the environment. Both are extremely rich and one made gigantic tax cuts for the rich right as we were gearing up for war. One understands and admits that he probably would have gone into Iraq as well but that there is a problem there and he knows that things are not going perfectly, while the other, who does not read newspapers or know anything except what his advisors tell him thinks that the situation over there is perfect and is delighted with everything.
But whatever, it's over... I went with my gut instinct and voted against the man that i thought has not lead this country well, and it didn't really matter... instead of being mad at Bush i think i'll be more mad at the two party system that makes it so that we cannot have the best man in office, but rather only get to consistently choose between mediocre men.
thank you raiderpaddler as well, kerry's hugest fault is voting against that 87 billion for the armed forces, even though we all know he voted for it before he voted against it, ha, nah. I agree with nevslin that we all appreciate everything everyone in the armed forces are doing for us, and i agree with you that we probably dont know how good we have it. So thank you, everyone in the army is doing an amazing job, i really look up to every single member of the armed forces right now.
Okay, enough on the election, i hate this stupid election.. but i can't go paddle because in a brief fit of anger last night as the results were coming in, i snapped my paddle in half... oh well, i'm an idiot..


#10 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 7:35am


Hey Luke,
Off to Canada you go!!! If I see you out in the water, I'll run you over! So, good riddens to you buddy, hope you move to Canada with a coastline. Oh don't forget your wetsuit. It's cold there. See YA!

Uhh..Bush did not create the mess in our oceans, it's irresponsible fisherman, boaters, maybe even some paddlers. So you're hinting when a Democrat was in office, the oceans were cleaner? I don't think so. As far as Bush on environmental issues. I believe he has granted millions of funds to enviromental consiouces offices such NOAA. As far as I'm concerned, the ocean still looks beautiful to me. And the beauty hasn't changed due to political influences. In your eyes the ocean has changed due to irresponsible ocean users.

So be cautious all ocean users. Don't pollute.

Oh yeah Luke. Canada is a place where draft dodgers and people who don't believe in the American Democracy go to R.I.P. Get out of my country Luke. USA! USA! USA!


#11 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 10:18am


  1. President bush unilaterally withdrew from the Kyoto treaty as soon as he got into office. The Kyoto treaty was extremely for the global environment. In short, Bush and his cronies do not believe in global warming–in contrast to the overwhelming scientific evidence that suggests otherwise.
  2. President does not give a crap about the environment, he and Bush Sr have vested interests in the oil market, they have incentives to maintain the status quo. Cheney has incentive to start wars. He worked for Haliburton, a huge defense corp, and recieved 20 million in severance pay. Coincidentally, the US awarded Haliburton an almost open ended contract to install infrastructure in Iraq. Haliburton has over charged the US gov hundreds of millions of $$$. War reaps tremendous financial awards for Cheney, at the same time Bush benefits from Wars that offer western control to Mideast oil fields. The US currently has exclusive control of Iraq oil. The US is using the oil to repay itself for the cost of the Iraq war.
  3. Fun fact: the Bush family has done business with the Bin Laden Group, yup that’s the same Bin Laden family we are after.
  4. Under the taliban, the heroin export was curtailed to a minimum. Once the US got in their it allowed the heroin trade to flourish again. When Bush had the chance to finish of Usama, he did not follow through...wow no there’s a man the military can trust. In fact Bush even said he doesn’t need to kill Usama to win the war on terror. Wait a second, who attacked us? Iraq? No.

    The Taliban? No.

    Usama and al Queda? Yes.

  5. I know Luke is an island boy but I don’t know about paddleroc6, any way here some fun facts for the latter: Hawaii did not come to America, America can to Hawaii uninvited and helped illegally overthrow Liliuokalani. Haole missionaries descendants systematically infiltrated Hawaiian law and manipulated the kingdom until it was theirs. America has no business being in Hawaii. So bradduh Luke stay here, and if paddleroc6 lives in Hawaii, fill up your oc6 with your other friends of like mind and get out of Hawai`I.
  6. In addition, for raider paddler, what is a Hilo boy doing protecting the financial interests of some dumb rich hick? I wish you a safe return.

#12 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 11:10am


[quote="paddleroc6"]Hey Luke,
Off to Canada you go!!! If I see you out in the water, I'll run you over! [/quote]
Let's try to keep the terroristic threatening to a minimum on this forum.

Respect people's opinions and share your own, but remember to accept differences in the end... keep it lite. :)


#13 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 11:41am


wow.... paddleroc6... i'm amazed
you attack me personally because i have a different view than you? thats a pretty awesome show of character..
hmm... yeah, it must be the paddlers and fishermen that are polluting the oceans.. two of the people who appreciate it most..they're the reason that if i don't shower very soon after being in california water i'll get sick within a few days, or ... hmm, must be emissions from fishermens boats that are filling the oceans and fish with mercury, or maybe its the occasional waterbottle that accidently falls out of a canoe thats breaking down into DDT and PCBs, both which cause cancer and birth defects... yeah, i never really thought about it like that.. thanks paddleroc6 for opening my eyes to the true polluters of our ocean
k, it may not directly matter who is president for the future of our oceans, but the environment should be a priority for all of us lucky enough to live in hawaii, and W. has made no effort to make helping the environment a priority.

paddleroc6.. are you implying that i should goto Canada and die or stay here and get run over by you? thats a heavy threat.. i really do hope that i see you in the ocean one day though, im sure you're more friendly in person

thanks kalepo, you know a little more about the subject than me, and thanks for putting some facts out there


#14 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 11:41am


lol
paddleroc6, what are you, like twelve years old? goto canada and RIP... if i see you in the ocean i'll run you over?? hahaha
you ever had anyone disagree with you before? theres a way to make your statement without being an asshole


#15 Wed, 11/03/2004 - 11:49am


Well this has turned into a debate about Pres Bush. Some of you know some some of you dont know crap. But I do know some facts. America has Every reason to be in HAWAII. Kalepo you need to look at the facts plus the hisory. If not us local boys would be speaking some other language like Japanese or Germay. Hawaii is to important an asset to any country to just give up. So just be happy that we are under American control, we can vote and cry and complain all we want but under the other countries that would like to have gotten these island paridise do you think that you would have it any better? We are a state in the middle of a very big ocean. Be happy you can paddle and be free to voice your opinion. I have seen only sand and 130 degree weather now looking forward to the 10 degree weather. No ocean for at least another 3 months. I am doing this to protect all of you. I dont care if you move to canada, i dont care if you agree with me but i do know paddling will take me away from all this when i get home. So hell with the politics, everyone deseves an opinion, sorry you all feel that kerry was a redemtion but i disagree. For you personally Kalepo I am protecting my own intrests and the rest of this great countries of OURS. I want to just say i am happy to defend our greta nation and fight for your rights to state your opinion, disagree. That is EVERYONES right as an AMERICAN citizen! Even though Bush has won the nation will heal its self. We are a strong nation built on these freedoms that give us all a chance. I have just seen it work in Afghanistan, they elected a new president and we will see this country strive. They are striving for what we have. They were ruled by the taliban and the women had no choice. So what about where the drugs come from we have plenty of it at home. Ice, X and acid can be made in a basement. The people braved the worst weather i had seen yet to date here to cast their ballots under threats of snipers and car bombs, cause they wanted change. HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY CAST YOUR BALLOT!!!. The American people spoke and it was the most decicive victory in History for America. Be happy we can do it so easily its hard for a nation where i am in.


#16 Thu, 11/04/2004 - 10:56am


I hate to disagree with you raiderpaddler, but just becuase Bush got the most votes of any president in american history, doesn't mean that it was the most desicieve. He also had the most votes cast against him as anybody running for president, and it was the slimist margin of vicotry in american history. Almost 120 million people voted and just under half voted for Kerry. Bush only talks about how he had the most votes ever, but never mentions that he also had the most votes agianst him. I completely support what we are doing in Afgahnistan, but I disagree with us going to war with Iraq. They have no WMDs, and they had no ties to Al Qaeda. Also I don't think that America should be a Christian country, we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, but we obviously don't. People talk about how abortion is murder, but what about AK-47s, are they used to hunt deer? And I have to give props to Luke for going to the most republican college in this country and still sticking up for what he believes in.


#17 Thu, 11/04/2004 - 3:19pm


Boys, I'm suprised you even have this thread...paddling and politics do not mix. We see it enough in our clubs and associations without having it on OCpaddler...

:roll:

Close this one down and head back over to the good stuff...


#18 Thu, 11/04/2004 - 3:52pm


  1. The US government has no legitimacy being in Hawaii. To this date, the way the US acquired Hawaii is unprecedented in international law. US marines help illegally overthrow the Queen, and against the will of the vast majority of the people of Hawaii. Furthermore, Hawaii was never annexed, rather, the US acquired the property through a resolution (newlands resolution). This was a violation of international law. While Hawaii was a territory, the people had no voice in deciding the Governor of Hawaii, and the working class was suppressed. Thus, statehood then became a way for the plantation class in Hawaii to attain a political voice. The result was the Democratic revolution in the state legislature. Lastly, even the vote for statehood was patently illegal and violated UN charter. The military was allowed to vote for statehood (most of who were not residents of Hawaii), and citizens were not given an option to chose to become an independent state. This was a violation of international law. Therefore, the US has no legal justification for occupying Hawaii.
  2. Your speculation as to other countries taking over Hawaii is unwarranted. Just as one can say that Hawai`i would have been taken over by another country, one can also say that Hawaii could be an independent country and protect it self. Speculating about the possible development of a free Hawaii over 50 years is a weak argument, either way. Lets stick to the facts.
  3. I really don’t see how you are protecting America by installing a puppet regime government in Afghanistan and Iraq. The elections in Afghanistan were a foregone conclusion. Everybody knew Karzai would win, he was America’s boy. He does whatever daddy tells him to do...
  4. Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive governments on the planet. Women don’t have rights there. Why don’t we attack them? They give us oil. (Many of the 9/11 hijackers were from saudi) What about our own country, women still make 70 cents on the dollar that men do. We can detain prisoners indefinitely (clear violations of international human rights law and the Constitution of the US). Hell, lets attack ourselves. What about the countries who pose a real threat to Hawaii, right now N. Korea has inter-continental ballistic missiles pointed at O`ahu. Lets attack them. This wont happen because they don’t have Oil!! While were at it, lets attack China and the rest of the socialist countries.
  5. “The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around and what do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters...the very minds of the people we're trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so innerred, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will that they will fight to protect it.
    “You take the blue pill, the story ends...you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.”

– take the red pill raider.


#19 Thu, 11/04/2004 - 3:55pm


Hey everybody, I know that I started this post, and it has become pretty heated, which is good for conversation. But I think that we should stick to posting our opinions and not personal attacks. Everybody is entitled to their own view, so let's all respect everybody on this bulletin board, even if we don't agree with them.


#20 Thu, 11/04/2004 - 5:38pm


I wasn't trying to upset the "gods" when I brought up the gut-check vote.
I agree with some part of everbody's feedback (except for paddleroc6).
The injustices served up by our forefathers cannot be undone by even the best arguments/rhetoric.
I paddle every day (I'm in town) and I am completely thankful for the privilege. If any of you ever make it to the East coast, my home is open and there are kanus in my backyard.
Mahalo y'all


#21 Thu, 11/04/2004 - 6:08pm


[quote="luke"]if bush wins i'm moving to canada.....[/quote]

Good choice Luke. I moved to BC over a year ago partly because of this administration. You're welcome to come up and paddle anytime.
Also, this thread probably isn't the best use of OCPaddler which is such a great resource to all paddlers, politics aside.

BTW, state by state, the states with average or above average [+100] IQ voted for Kerry and those with below average [-100] voted for Bush. Just too many voters in states with IQs below 100 I guess, ha ha. Think about it... ;)

see ya on the water


#22 Fri, 11/05/2004 - 7:30am


:lol: Everyone remember regardless who we voted for we have to live in the beautiful Nation.. I am not happy with the vote, but have to get on with my life. Bush has to reach out to us who did not vote for him, or does he? He has his majority, what we need to do is our part, if the ocean in dirty help clean it, if a friend needs a helping had, give one. We cannot rely on our government. I agree with one of the earlier writers, I was for going after bin laden. But when it came to Iraq. No!! What's done is done. We are never going to change what happend.

Now then. Let's all get back to talking about canoes, paddling in harmony, grip tape, energy and stop talking about politics.

Aloha


#23 Fri, 11/05/2004 - 9:11am


ha, thanks for the support doncraig.. i saw that statistic yesterday, kind of funny
i think though that i'll stay in Hawaii... or California for two more years and then out of this state as quickly as possible and back home
But, i'm curious... how realistic is it that Hawaii could one day be independent? Since it was a completely illegal takeover, couldn't a unified voice for sovereignty figure out a way to secede? It may not solve all of Hawaii's problems but i think that it could be a start.. I dunno though, I'm Haole so maybe i shouldn't support sovereignty if it means that i'll be kicked out once theres independence
i'm not sure if this is correct... but, instead of paying federal income taxes, that money would stay in the state and with the correct leadership, using our perfect location between East and West, could create and attrack business from Japan and the mainland... lessen our reliance on tourism while creating higher end jobs for all the people who have to move away from Hawaii to find work...
that realistic or ridiculous.. or maybe this doesn't belong on ocpaddler?
I really think that hawaii needs to find its direction, we keep on making these incremental decisions without a lot of heed for the far future... what happens when we're nothing but overpriced hotels, traffic and wal mart..... and even if others dissagree i think this is important to be talked about, even on a website devoted to paddling.. hey, with an independent Hawaii could devote federal funds to the sport... like tahiti.. could have more power to petition the olympic comittee to get it in the olympics.. all kinds of things..
nah.. maybe this is all a stupid fantasy, but it seems to me like it could happen and that it would be good for Hawaii

k... im done, no matter what happens we can all always paddle.. and thats the important thing


#24 Fri, 11/05/2004 - 9:22am


Take um both they both good and then you get both the stories. Nuff already have fun paddling. Enjoy what you can today, for tomarrow may never come. Aloha all, it was a fun debate. Six months and I outta here!!!


#25 Fri, 11/05/2004 - 10:50am


luke,
under the kindom of Hawai`i, haole(s) could vote too. I dont think you suggestions are a fantasy, many people have thought of this already. The possibilities are limitless.

Paddling is a unique sport. Unlike football, basketball, soccer, baseball or any other sport, paddling is intertwined with politics and culture. It is a Hawaiian (and polynesian) sport that has significant cultural importance dating back THOUSANDS of years. Paddling is a way to perpetuate this culture. Politics does have an affect on paddling. Look at what happens when some one tries to privatize harbors, look whats happening on Maui. In addition, (im sure bush would laugh about this) humans can and do have an adverse affect on the environment and the weather. An admin's policy can srew up the earth and its oceans. Politics and paddling are related, many great political movements have been started in Hawai by canoe clubs!

anyway maybe we should lay this thread to rest. Raiderpaddler, i may come across as an ass, but im really not, hope you return safely to Hawai`i Nui Moku O Keawe!!!!!!!!!!!


#26 Fri, 11/05/2004 - 11:25am


Food for thought:

>WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY ????

>Regardless of who you will vote for in the election, this is
interesting.

>There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of
>January..... in the fair city of Detroit (Michigan) there were 35
murders
>in the month of January. That's one American city folks, about as
deadly as
>the entire war torn country of Iraq!
>
>Worst president in history?
>
>The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to
the
>editor.
>
>Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They
>complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed
Bush was
>the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point:
>
>We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by
>terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
>
>Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.
>

>Lincoln allowed the US to fall into civil war. How would you like a
nice
>Civil war today? You could go and kill your out of state relatives!

>FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
>
>From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per
year.
>
>
>
>Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never
>attacked us. >From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of
18,333
>per year.
>
>
>
>John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never
>attacked us. I think history might show Eisenhower committed the
troops and
>Kennedy was honoring that commitment.
>
>
>
>Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. >From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives
were
>lost, an average of 5,800 per year.
>
>
>
>Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia
never
>attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times
>by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
>
>
>
>In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has
liberated
>two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear
>inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and
>captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We
lost 600
>soldiers, an average of 300 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not
>allowing another terrorist attack at home.
>
>
>
>Worst president in history? Come on!
>
>
>
>The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...
>
>
>
>It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch
>Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.
>
>
>
>We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time
>than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing
records.
>
>
>
>It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy
>the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the
police
>after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
>
>
>
>It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in
>Florida!!!!
>
>
>
>OurPresident is GREAT! PASS IT ON!!!
I got this from a friend and thought I'd pass it along. And as far as the enviroment, as long as we own a vehicle, turn on a light bulb, or even take a dump, we are all contributors to the decay of our enviroment. Don't blame it all on Bush. He's just trying to satisfy the hunger of us selfish Americans that need to drive a half mile down the road to buy a loaf of bread or drive a couple of miles to launch our OC-1s.
Anyways, I could go on and on, but until we as Americans change our way of living, don't expect our government to change either, no matter who is president.


#27 Fri, 11/05/2004 - 3:43pm


Kalepo, thank you and may all your and everyones freedom right or wrong in anyones eyes be appriciated. I am most humbled by you wishing my safe return, please pray or wish (cause praying may not be politically correct now days) for the safe return of OUR Hawaii National Guard boyz where ever we are. More better fight in the canoe cause we going fix da problem. Take care everone and may you all enjoy your paddleing! Cant wait to get in da kanu again! Aloha everone dis has passed alot of time over here an may I talk to you all again in other posts! Raiderpaddler out, and by the way we suck this year.


#28 Sat, 11/06/2004 - 10:28am


woops, wrong thread, too serious for me here. bye bye


#29 Sun, 11/07/2004 - 11:05pm


Hi guys! I'm from Italy, if i were in US i'd vote for Kerry...but i'm not american and i think it's difficult to understand who's better in White House for american people.
Kerry doesn't seem to have much personality, but Bush has invented a wicked and useless war...and here in Italy we are governed by his hanger-on!
However...I'm new in this forum. I paddle in Italy..OC1 and OC4 (and also dragon boat).
This the site of my team www.makai.it, unfortunately only in italian...
aloha and mahalo
Carlo

PS. sorry for my bad english!


#30 Mon, 11/08/2004 - 4:31am


For Te Rauparaha,

You Europeans are so unique. It is mind boggling to me that anyone could see the actions of our leaders and military in Iraq and Afghanistan as “wicked and useless.” I am currently a freshman in college and am in ROTC and can’t wait to do my part for my country. When I think of our service men in Iraq and Afghanistan and everything that they have and will sacrifice then I read your FALSE statement it stirs something inside of me which makes me crazy.

So please reply why you believe our military and our leaders are WICKED and WORTHLESS. Again your reasoning far surpasses my imagination. Until then E.S.A.D.
:twisted: [quote]
Bush has invented a wicked and useless war
[/quote]


#31 Mon, 11/08/2004 - 1:08pm


hrm, guys, I'll think I'll officially end this thread. It's been a great discussion and many great view points have been brought up that I think us as paddlers, should be aware of. But I see no sense in having and everlasting flame war on politics on here. I'd like to quote raiderpaddler in sayinig "Take um both they both good and then you get both the stories. Nuff already have fun paddling."

oh, and sorry to pvanlier and Te Rauparaha for cutting you short just after you joined the discussion, but I hope you see my reasons for doing so and will join in later topics.

Alohas


#32 Mon, 11/08/2004 - 1:47pm


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