Respect for Hawaii names please

with todays instant msg and txts abbreviations its a wonder people still
type out that much

#1 Sun, 08/15/2010 - 5:59pm

have to agree with novice c post , respect hawaiian names

#3 Tue, 08/17/2010 - 3:47pm

that and your ignorance and lazyness to learn and how to spell or say hawaiian names.

#5 Tue, 08/17/2010 - 7:02pm

I have no excuse for my ignorance and lazyness. Unlike some, I am genetically predisposed to ineptness. Mahalo nui loa for reminding me of my shortcomings.

#7 Tue, 08/17/2010 - 8:09pm

James, I think you're spot on re: this being an issue of respect. It seems that our society at large stopped being respectful, as well as courteous, sometime ago. We call lots of people, places and things by abbreviated slang, whether from trying to be hip, mean-spirited or just plain lazy. This isn't restricted to Hawaiian names or places. Examples:

California = "Cali"
President Obama = "Obama"
San Francisco = "Frisco"
Franklin Delano Roosevelt = "FDR"
Martin Luther King = "MLK"
Las Vegas = "Vegas"
Women = MANY pejorative names!
Pick ANY ethnic/national/religious group......

I suspect that every one of us is guilty of doing this, at one time or another. I also suspect that each of us could use a primer every once in awhile on respect and courtesy toward others. End of sermon......

#9 Wed, 08/18/2010 - 6:53am

Bamskii
Isn't Bird Mokolea?

#11 Wed, 08/18/2010 - 9:11am

I stand corrected, Mokolea with the kahako over the "o". Let me do more research aside from the internet. Moko which means "rough", kind of describes the ocean conditions in the area.

Carlton

#13 Wed, 08/18/2010 - 9:53am

We had considered naming the Race Around the Hat something to do with Mokoli'i. Perhaps next year we'll change the name of the race. The former just rolls off the tongue but I guess that's no excuse.

#15 Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:00am

removed

#17 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 3:04pm

Eckhart: that's because tribal people, including Europeans are all connected. But then, along came Martin Luther and converted all the heathens

#19 Thu, 08/19/2010 - 5:03am

Mahalo Eckhart,
Really appreciate your history lesson, for it was very informative and you summed things up rather compactly.

Now imagine the poor Hawaiian who couldn't practice the indigenous religion until 1974 when the Hawaii State Statutes were revised. Until 1974, it was considered sorcery and forbidden, since it was against the Law.

But a scholar, Max Freedom Long, years ago, somehow used the missionaries own Hawaiian dictionary to discover Huna, which is gaining some popularity today. So who knows what may be hidden in Hawaiian words or names, for they are very powerful. And when used in a chant, everything resonates.

#21 Thu, 08/19/2010 - 2:14pm

Who defined that abbreviations were disrespectful? Disrespect is a lot more complicated issue than simplifing to abbreviations. If I call someone Tom and there real name is Tommy I am not being disrespectful. I find it disrespectful that someone thinks I'm being disrectful for saying kam. This comes off as a very self righteous post.
Let me abbreviate my thoughts: this is a stupid post.

#23 Thu, 08/19/2010 - 8:47pm

@healthyearth or yearth for short, you just don't get it. If uttered incorrectly with intent, you disrespect not just a person or place, but you disrespect a community, a culture, a way of life, Hawaiian history, and the Hawaiian people. Drive up to Kamehameha Schools and tell the students, staff, and administration what you just posted. Don't be surprise you don't get a warm welcome!

Unless there's an altercation and acts of cowardice (by not posting name) while cyber bullying, the posts have been pretty informative and not stupid.

Carlton

#25 Thu, 08/19/2010 - 11:03pm

.

#27 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 3:05pm

Kala mai ia'u "Kanakakai", mahalo for the correction. Came on to the scene with some authority and knowledge.

Majority of the hidden meanings behind songs and chants were about sex. So when you hear a song having pua (or flower) sung in multiple verses and lines, think of its alternate meaning...

Carlton

#29 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 12:12pm

Hey healthyearth is that just you're opinion or one commonly shared opinion in you're club? Just wondering........

#31 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 1:11pm

.

#33 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 3:05pm

jerryguy

This was the point I was trying to make to eckhart diestel. How would he/she like his/her name changed for the hell of it.

#37 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 5:25pm

aue. i hate when people call me puni. my names Kapuni. 2 totally different names.

#39 Fri, 08/20/2010 - 5:57pm

novice c maybe i am ignorant or even downright disrespectful. yet ive never once felt slighted or got upset about the mispelt or mispronounce hawaiian words.

#41 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 12:41am

kanakakai: Regarding the okino and kahako, I just feel they spoil the appearance of Hawaiian words or names, which never had them before until around 1980 when I first noticed them on street signs. I thought they added them for the convenience of tourists.

Regarding "poor," as being robbed of one's spirituality, and if caught in the practice, risk being persecuted and punished. So had to practice in secret or else be prosecuted and sent to jail. Maybe I should of said unfortunate?
The Hawaii Revised Statutes of 1974 are a volume of law books that for the first time did not make practicing the indigenous religion a crime. The Statutes prior to this volume did. I am also familiar with the 1978 Constitutional Convention, since my delegate helped pass the Hawaiian Affairs proposal. Probably you are thinking about the 1968 Convention when many civil rights issues were proposed?

Now Huna is understandably controversial, but it was mentioned as an example of how studying Hawaiian words could be used to discover hidden things that we don't know about.

#43 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 5:53am

Hoot Hoot!

You guy's really crack me up, after all you should be thanking me for bringing my beautiful Haywaiian name to other states and other countries! Pueo No Ka 'Oi dont ya know

P.S. Jason - braddahhhhhh wouldn't a proud Akamai Kanaka Maoli like yourself be paddling something more native and "indigenous" like muah instead of that hideous Czechoslovakian "sea eagle". Auwe! Imua not Ihope!

#45 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 6:53am

Aukina: Bradha is smart. Hawaiian language was not a written language. So when the first Malihinis came to hawaii. They tried to make it a written language. But, Hawaiian language was different sounding in some parts of Hawaii than other parts. Some used "v" some used "w". Some used both but only with certain words. Same with "L" and "r", "P' and "B", and "T" and "K", the main thing was it meant the same. The Malihinis, mainly Missionarys, want to teach from the Bible, so the simplified the language. So any words with "R"s just were replaced w/ "L" and so on. SO the hawaiian language 13 letters in the alphabet, But there were more. So the language that we hear to day is not the true form.

Even University Hawaiian is not the same as Kamehameha schools Hawaiian. And Kupuna Hawaiian is different.
They say Ni'ihau hawaiian is very similar to the ancient Hawaiian language.

But, I'm no professor. So I say, talk to the Head figures of Hawaiian language and Hawaiian studies professors at UH. They will teach u.

#47 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 12:15pm

As I remember it from scholol :The missionaries landed on Hawaii Island in 1820 . They learned the dialect spoken on that island. When Kamehameha conquered the other islands that dialect came with him and the missionaries further promoted it by translating the bible into it. With the other islands conquered the Hawaiian island dialect became prominent in writing and in speaking,

Kamehameha slaughtered the alii of Kauai and placed as Konohiki over the ahupuaa his kinsman and allies. His culture, his religion and his political system became paramount. Kauai still has retained some of the original dialect...as spoken in Niihau.and on the West side. It was spoken in some of the remote valleys until recent times. SInce Kauai was the first island visited by foreigners...the Kauai dialect appears on maps of the era prior to 1820.

#49 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 2:51pm

poidog & Aukina3

When the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions (ABCFM) came to the Hawaiian Islands in 1820, Kamehameha I (Paiea) had already passed in 1819.

No dialect followed Kamehameha I after his unification of the Hawaiian Islands. If that was the case the same dialect would have affected Ni'ihau, where the use of the "T" is much prominent than that of the "K" which is heard in many more locations of the Hawaiian Islands.

Kamehameha I did not slaughter the ali'i of Kaua'i. Kamehameha was given Kaua'i through a peaceful face-to-face treaty with Kaumuali'i in 1810.

Remembering visits to places like Tahiti by Captain James Cook, the language bank that he acquired throughout Polynesia had him and those aboard the ships that accompanied his to try and come up with a literal translation of what they heard or thought they heard of the many places they saw and/or visited. Those assumed literal translations made their way on many of the older maps that are still around today.

Some maps were created by others who may have not even visited those islands that they were drawing. The names and places were foreign to them. With that said many places were given names that were close to their traditional names but simply did not have the interpreted spellings of those places as we have them today. Other islands or island groups were given names of those explorers that re-discovered them or for those that they re-discovered them for. Such is the case with Hawai'i (Sandwich Islands - after Captain James Cook sponsor for his third voyage in to the Pacific, the 4th Earl of Sandwich).

#51 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 5:24pm

Nana I Ke Kumu: Look to the Source, Volume I
By Mary Kawena Pukui
Page 94

In the early days of Hawai'i, personal possessions were few, but highly valued. Poi pounders, woven mats, a man's malo or loin cloth, the stone adze of a canoe maker, the bone hooks of a fisherman, the spear of a warrior—all these were prized. But even more precious was each man's most personal possession, his name.

One's inoa was both owned property and a kind of force in its own right. Once spoken, an inoa took on an existence, invisible, intangible, but real. An inoa could be a causative agent, capable of marshalling mystic elements to help or hurt the bearer of the name. And, so went the belief, the more an inoa was spoken, the stronger became this name-force and its potential to benefit or harm.*

*This is consistent with the belief that certain words, once spoken, existed, and might even set in motion events of consequence. This was an essential concept in 'anai (curse) and hua'olelo (rash statement or threat).

#53 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 5:46pm

poidog & Aukina3

Mahalo to Kanakakai!!

Okay, so my friend is a teacher at UH in hawaiian studies and there are books that have the old olelo hawaii in them. You should read; Hawaiian Language Imprints, 1822-1899; The Hawaiian kingdom vol.1,2,3.;Ruling chiefs of Hawaii; are just some books that shows the use of the old consonants that are no used in todays hawaiian language. On the first page of Hawaiian Language Imprints, 1822-1899, it has the list of the hawaiian alphabet. the list is, A, E, I, O, U, and B, D, H, K, M, N, P, R, T, V, W. This is what the western missonaries heard and atempted to right down in english. In the book, The Hawaiian kingdom, Capt. Cook, broke down the names of the people he would meet. One person was written like so, Ka-he-kere, this is what he heard. This person was the chief of Maui, who we know after the language was changed to be Kahekili.

In my mind with out a doubt that we do not speak the same Hawaiian language of pre-contact Hawaiian.

And to debunk your Kauai slaughter story please read "Ruling chiefs of Hawaii". The title of Chap. XVI The Peaceful Transfer of Kauai to Kamehameha (Pages 187-199), I think the title will be good enough.

Get back at me!!!

#55 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 6:10pm

This is all super interesting to me.

I know that this is a tangent, but it's the part that is most interesting to me.
In Chapter XVI of Ruling Chiefs of Hawai'i-- there is no actual transfer of Kaua'i to Kamehameha. Kamakau writes:

"Kamehameha had now given up the thought of going to war with Ka-umu-ali'i, believing that he could secure annexation by peaceful means. He therefore sent one of the lesser chiefs, named Kihei, as his representative to invite Ka-umu-ali'i to come to Oahu to see Kamehameha and make a treaty of peace between the two. The messenger was received by Ka-umu-ali'i with great dignity and given land and wives; he therefore never returned to report to Kamehameha... Long Kamehameha waited, hoping to meet Ka-umu-ali'i face to face. He sent messengers, but all remained on Kauai where they were given lands and wives... Ka-umu-ali'i was doubtful about coming to Oahu... In spite of the chief's silence on the subject he could see that it was not peace Kamehameha wanted, but Ka-umu-ali'i's consent to rule under Kamehameha... He therefore sent his nephew... to negotiate with Kamehameha,,, On their reporting their kind reception to the Kauai cheif, Ka-umu-ali'i finally consented to visit Oahu in person, declaring 'Since my own nephew has returned alive I will now go myself; but Kamehameha has but one object in this meeting, my giving up the government to him!'... Thus in the seventh year of Kamehameha's occupation of Oahu the two rulers met face-to-face.... When Kamehameha and his chiefs came aboard in their feather robes, Ka-umu-ali'i signaled out the [ruling] chief and grasping his hand said, "Here I am; is it face up or face down?' Kamehameha disclaimed the inference, and the chief continued, 'This is my gift at our meeting; the land of Kauai, its cheifs, its men great and small, from mountain to sea, all above and below, and myself to be yours.' Kamehameha said, "I shall not accept your land, not the least portion of your domain. Return and rule over it. But if our young chief [Liholiho] makes you a visit, be please to receive him." Ka-umu-ali'i answered, 'We have met, and I am now returning." (194-195)

He goes on to explain that many chiefs on O'ahu wanted Kaumuali'i to be killed, but Kamehameha said "this is not a time of war which would justify me in killing another chief and seizing his possessions."

So, there is no actual transfer of power explained in the Chapter "The Peaceful Transfer of Kauai to Kamehameha."

In Chapter XX "Rule and Death of Liholiho" Kamakau writes about a meeting between Liholiho and Kaumuali'i on July 24 1821 (Two years after Kamehameha's death). The conversation went like this (according to Kamakau)
Liholiho: in accordance with the words of Kamehameha... Ka-umu-ali'i shall be the ruling chief of Kauai and occupy the place inherited from his ancestors, only the name of king to belong to Liholiho, the flesh and bones to be Ka-umu-ali'i's.
Kaumuali'i: let the king take some of the lands and give them to his wives.
Liholiho: No, you shall retain your lands.
Kaumuali'i: Will not your guardians be dissatisfied with this?
Liholiho: Kamehameha I left no command in regard to the land, merely that I should be ruler

In Chapter XXI "The Childhood of Kau-i-ke-aouli" Kamakau writes about Ka-umu-ali'i's death and will. In response to the question who should be successor, he answered "Our 'son'" and in response to a question about land ownership he said "Let the lands be as they are; those chiefs who have lands to hold them, those who have not to have none." After Kaumuali'i's death, Kamakau writes "at the council of chiefs it was determined to abide by his last words and give the governorship of Kauai and Niihau to his nephew... for these islands had not at that time become a part of Kamehameha's terriroty."

Kamakau then writes about a battle between "Kauai forces" and "Hawaii men." There were a faction of Kauai chiefs who wanted a re-distribution of the land, but Kalanimoku (the chiefly representative of Liholiho) wouldn't allow it. So the Kaua'i chiefs attacked. O'ahu reinforcements were sailed in and the Kaua'i chiefs were slaughtered. Kamakau writes "For ten days the soliders harried the land killing men, women, and children..." Prisoners were brought to O'ahu and "a great deal of property was taken."

Then, in his final words on the redistribution of power on Kaua'i, Kamakau writes:
"After the battle the chiefs all came together and Ka-lani-moku redistributed the lands of Kauai." Then, in a relatively rare interjection, Kamakau writes "Was this right? What about Kamehameha's agreement with Ka-umu-ali'i? What about Liholiho's promise? What about the last will of Ka-umu-ali'i at Pakaka?... The last will of Ka-umu-ali'i, who had the real title to the lands, was not respected.... and the loafers and hangers-on of Oahu and Maui obtained the rich lands of Kauai." And so the chapter ends.

Sorry for the novel and the gigantic tangent. I just find that piece of history extremely interesting. Now back to the language discussion.

I just read an 'Olelo No'eau which says: "Aloha mai no, aloha aku: O ka huhu ka mea e ola 'ole ai." When love is given, love should be returned; anger is the thing that gives no life.
I think it's vitally important that we remain respectful of each other.

#57 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 8:14pm

I just glad hawaiians know where to find this good stuff. Ulukau!!!

#59 Sat, 08/21/2010 - 8:31pm

As a person of European and Native American heritage, this is incredibly interesting information and history. My undergraduate major was history, and so much of the Hawaiian experience parallels the histories of my varied lineages. It just serves to remind me, once again, that we are much more alike than different. Let us all continue to respectfully celebrate our individual variations, but also continue to embrace our commonality. Mahalo to all for sharing.

#61 Sun, 08/22/2010 - 3:24am

haha funny poidog. all this time i thought you was one kanaka. i guess on the internet really no more racial bias, cause no can tell if you flip, kanaka, haole or whatever race. as far as haoles goes, i know some who love the hawaiian culture more than some of us kanaks. matter of fact they probably are more hawaiian than most of us. auwe sad no :(.

#63 Sun, 08/22/2010 - 4:03pm