Molo predictions....

Alright one week till race day. Let's see what's brewing on everyone's mind. I hear she'll has a second team, should be interesting to see if a Hawaii team can beat shell 2. First Hawaii team, primo Or lanikai?
Let's go!!!

Submitted by KKK808 on Thu, 09/27/2012 - 12:03pm



  1. Shell A
  2. EDT
  3. Shell B
  4. Lanikai 1
  5. Primo
  6. Outrigger
  7. Molokai
  8. Tahaa
  9. Lanikai 2
  10. (Big island crew)
  11. Hawaiian
  12. Hui Lanikila

#1 Thu, 09/27/2012 - 12:22pm


What's the spread? Is Shell still giving 12 minutes?


#2 Thu, 09/27/2012 - 1:19pm


@MauiTim (the ultimate doppelgänger)- I remember you getting the NWH spot on. How'd you figure Bradley was going to beat WBBCC?

I've got
1. A group of Tahitian teams
2. A dial-a-team (I only say Dial-a-team cause I don't know how few will be racing)
3. Some club teams

Truthfully though- the only race I care about is the club teams racing against eachother. Then I look at the Tahitians as a race (Cause I just assume they are club). I like races because race performances help to validate theories that we have on making canoes go faster. Dial-a-teams for me add static to the information gathering process that can lead to better fundaments of making faster boats. Many times ultimate talent can drown out solid fundamentals. If we had more than a couple dial-a-teams then I would be more interested in their performance. For now I'm really can't compare them against other teams. I like watching them a lot and I appreciate them a lot more when they are racing outside the HCRA(ish) races. It's like this, I love the Olympics Dream Teams, but do I want to see that team play against Miami Heat without the Heats star players.


#3 Thu, 09/27/2012 - 1:55pm


I don't want to see the Olympics dream team play against the Miami heat without Heats star players... Well said sir. Well said.


#4 Thu, 09/27/2012 - 6:00pm


Dude, I love reading your posts! Good stuff

That said; I would consider every Tahitian team a "dial-a-team" simply because they are putting the "best of the best" in their top boats.

I am highly anticipating a 404 vs Primo battle. I think after Olamau, 404 wants to settle the score a bit!


#5 Thu, 09/27/2012 - 6:04pm


don't discount the fact that primo now has a fire breathing dragon with super sharp pointy talons onboard. that has to count for something.

http://pseresults.com/events/368/results/438/print

last years results for a frame of reference. who's to say how the people have changed. there's 404 to add to the mix. Lanikai added a couple Dolanses and a Roney. Primo could possibly have added even a Night Fury. not to be outdone, outrigger has added a sprint world champion to their stable of thoroughbreds.


#6 Thu, 09/27/2012 - 6:45pm


Are the race organizers allowing Unlimited canoes in this year's Molo Hoe?


#7 Fri, 09/28/2012 - 3:29am


will we get a live fead line this year?


#8 Fri, 09/28/2012 - 4:30am


Kileki-
I don't believe that the Tahitian teams are "best of the best." They each may recruit the top paddlers but they're spread out over a lot of competitive teams. I would argue that in Hawai'i, our top paddlers are much more concentrated in the top teams (Primo, Lanikai, Outrigger). Are there any Hawaiian paddlers who came in the top 15 in the Moloka'i Solo that aren't on one of those teams?


#9 Fri, 09/28/2012 - 8:02am


I agree Luke, I think that in Tahiti the depth and quality of the elite paddlers may make it seem that the "pro" teams are made of the best of the best. Really anyone in the top 100 or 150 is of the level for most top Tahitian teams, that's the whole molo solo start line. Good luck to all, represent Hawaii.


#10 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 8:49am


The only way a Hawaii team or any other team besides Tahiti can ever win is to learn the Tahitian stroke. Tahitian teams are normally made up of men in there teens low twenty's and mid twenty's.to find older men on top Crews are very rare. In seven years of domination shell had different crew members. In Hawaii primo lanikai and other top teams are basically the same people. Its unreal how Tahitians can produce new and faster crews Wich are getting younger and younger. The only reason that they win is not because there pros or they paddle more its because there technique is the best period.in Hawaii you have so many theorys of stroke tech and how to paddle. In Tahiti everyone learns one and only one stroke tech. That's why there the best.


#11 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 12:12pm


I agree with some of your points but not to the extremity of your points. Stroke is something that I've thought about quite a bit and below I will list some of my conclusions.

  1. I've watched a fair amount of Tahitian videos. I don't see their technique being that much different than Foti, Ching (what I've seen him teach), Beachboys (what they teach), and for that matter what I've heard other programs teach or TRY (key word TRY) to do. I think why people think Tahitian stroke is so different is because it is so much faster partly because their canoes can go faster. When I see their blades enter water I see that their body is positioned how a lot of programs teach and when they exit the water it appears it they exit the water around their seat. Because is faster I've heard paddlers say that their stroke is shorter, but it is not, it just appears shorter cause they are moving themselves to the up to their blades faster.
  2. Most of the Tahitian paddlers appear to be trying to do the same technique. Though in each canoe I can tell that each one has subtle differences, but they are very subtle.
  3. I think one problem in Hawaii is that not all coaches eyes are trained to spot all the subtleties of a stroke and they miss things. I live on the Ala Wai and any time I see a club pass by I just look at their technique so that I train my eye to spot all the subtleties quickly. I don't look at them to judge them. Another goal that I hope to gain from this is to be able to teach a team any stroke that their head coach wants me to teach them. When I first started paddling all strokes looked a like, now that I have become more familiar with stroke I see all the differences.
  4. So I don't think they have any magical mechanics in their stroke. But, I think MAYBE they understand the importance of all aspects of the a stroke better than we do.
  5. I think ideally a team would benefit from a head coach having a technique coach. Sort of like in NFL where a head coach has a QB coach, a kicker coach, etc. Some head coaches can do it all, some cannot and they hopefully have other expertise. The coach just needs to understand where their weaknesses lie and fill that void. I think Lanikai has a system like this.

All or some of this could be discredited maybe, these are just thoughts that I have to hopefully one day having a more solid conclusion.


#12 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 1:17pm


I agree with some of your points espeacially #4. But cant say the same for most of the reasons. As for one I know that not all of them look the same but every single paddle is doing exactly the same thing. They are taught to cacth apply pressure and exit exactly the same even though there body's are not the same exactly there paddling stroke in the water are all identicle. It doesn't just come down to the stroke it self. It also has to do with the way they sit in the canoe is also slightly different. The way they applly pressure and where they are pulling the water to. I can go into deep detail about this but will not because of private reasons. But I still think Hawaii's has a hole lot more to learn.


#13 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 1:49pm


It must be that time of year again!!!
When everyone starts lamenting Hawaiias poor form and starts looking for the Tahitian "secret" .
I think it's all bullshit there is nothing wrong with Hawaiian technique and no Tahitian secret.
The difference is a direct result of the training structure and ongoing support of both camps.
My prediction is that the team who is best prepared will win the race.


#14 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 2:14pm


secret = 10,000+ hours in the canoe doing the right thing the whole time


#15 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 4:26pm


The typical size range in an olympic class racing shell is 6'3" to 6'9". That is how they get their sweep. I don't know ..but I am 6'3" and when walking alongside the shell crew..I felt of average size. They are a tall and lean and fit crew.. So ..given... they have the reach...they use really wide area blades...check out the typical size of a tahitii rames...sort of heavy and stiff.....so there is no slippage and a lot of forward pull is created with every stroke. They are conditioned so they can swing and hammer those big blades. Watching them from a boat during the changes....like poetry in motion with little loss in forward momentum of the canoe. Great competitors!


#16 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 4:34pm


Taaroa Dubois isn't 6'3-6'9 and still hammers like a maniac
And the paddle choices have broadened so much Tahiti rames aren't used by a lot of top guys.
I know for a fact George cronsteadt uses a Makana ali'i.


#17 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 7:08pm


i am probably out of date about a lot of things and I am going back to 2010. But seemed like the crew all had Rames paddles and the average crew size did seem tall,. i got one of the spare paddles. 54.5" from blade to tee top. Most crews i know of figure 53" is pretty long. How tall is Taaroa ? and yes ...he does hammer. Really does not matter though...


#18 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 7:45pm


looks like it that time again.since everyone had their two cents heres mine. the fact of the matter is they move the canoe to what fits them best. they are able to have a faster stroke rate because thats what works for them. iam pretty sure the paddlers on shells team are lucky if they are 6'0'' on average. bruno,taaroa just to name a few. age can be a friend because of that experience factor just ask that masters crew who got 6th over all last year in molokai, but they're from tahiti if that makes a difference to you. just put in the work and cut the ego trips then hawaiis got a better chance.maybe put a true best of hawaii crew and see how that works. but again thats just my two cents. spend it wisely.


#19 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 9:19pm


Aloha to All,

My thoughts on this are that everyone is right to some extent:

• Tahitian stroke, which needs to be applied with a Tahitian double bend blade, does make a difference and that’s why even Top Hawaiian teams started using them in the last couple of years.
• Shell boys are not really big/tall. In fact the top ones like Yoann Cronsteadt, and Bruno Tauhiro are the smallest ones. Same thing with EDT boys like Steve Teihotaata and Rete Ebb. I believe the difference is the power they produce vs. body weight. Very different from the typical body type that we see in the Olympics from rowers and Kayak paddlers;
• Personally, I don’t agree with previous posts. If you look at the top 20 paddlers in every single V1 race, with just a couple of exceptions, all top 20 paddlers belong to either Shell (A, B or C), EDT (A or B), OPT (A or B) or Paddling Connection. Shell started this year a Junior program and they also recruited the best of the best. In saying that, the core group of Shell A paddlers are all late 20’s and been paddling for at least 5 years together. Like any other collective sport changes do happen but just to name a few, the steerer is the same (David Tepava) for the last 8 years…;
• Like any other sport worldwide, the more practitioners of a sport, more chances to produce champions. Examples are soccer players in Brazil, swimmers in Australia or runners in Kenya just to name a few;
• As Kevlo said: training & support. In the middle of the season Shell Va’a trains anything between 20-25rs a week plus two sessions of 7 kms running on the hill before a gym session with weights (long/resistant muscles, they’re not bodybuilders..). Therefore, if they’re not “full-time professionals” they’re at least part-time ones. On the background they have a manager, a nutritionist/physical trainer, a head coach and an assistant coach all reporting to the CEO of the company. Heaps of investment!
• Underneath all that is a collective (tribal) culture where ego is left on land;

Good luck to everyone crossing the channel next week!!!


#20 Sat, 09/29/2012 - 9:24pm


Great post Feirulegui. I believe you are correct and nailed every important point.

A couple of other observations are the speed the Tahitians produce allows them to take a straight line in the channel. The are going so fast that I don;t think the line is much of a concern for them. They can blast through any tide, jump on any big bombers headed in the direction they are going and of course ride small runners. In some respect they are going faster than small runners, so don;t rider runners too long as they jump onto the next one quickly. I might be wrong, but that is what I see


#21 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:44am


When following Team OPT for hawaiki nui 2010 I noticed that Opt looked very different than Shell physically. They weren't lean/ ripped "athletes"... In appearance. They actually looked kinda soft or chubby. However a big difference I noticed was in the surf. Shell started every days race in the lead but by mid course OPT tracked them down in the Surf. The stroke rate of Shell was a much faster "tahitian" stroke... Where OPT looked calm, relaxed and had a slower "hawaiian" stroke.
So I wonder where "oneshotcharly" got those observations? I've seen a lot of blanket comments over the past years about "tahitian" paddlers as if they all paddle, look, train the same way. Those who haven't been to Tahiti are only exposed to Shell, Opt, EDT and a few other top crews who venture to Hawaii for Molokai Hoe.
That would be like people in Tahiti making generalizations about us "Hawaiians" based on seeing "team Hawaii" at hawaiki nui.... Obviously they don't (accurately) represent all of Hawaii paddlers... For better or worse.


#22 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:14am


Oh ya... I forgot to mention: THEY TRAIN like world champions. Not 4 days a week for 1-3 hour sessions. I got Opt's training schedule that year and they were doing two-a-days 5 days a week. And doing some sort of training 7 days a week.
(Time together in the canoe X lots of hours) + fintness = success.


#23 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:27am


.2 $ It would also help to eat well, the heart is what pushes the blood ect. Canadian Pennys


#24 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:43am


.02 *


#25 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:53am


Lanikai primo livestrong all of these top Hawaii crews train if not harder just as hard as Tahitian. Because top ccrews got money so you cant tell me Tahiti trains harder. When our top crews do this for their livelyhood. Most of the members in these top crews spend most of their time paddling canoes.so how come their not winning!! Only one thing I can think of TECHNIQUE! Not stroke pace but how they are stroking. If you sell canoes you train to be the best so people buy your product. So training is not the issue guarentee!!


#26 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:18pm


This same stuff comes up every year, but what the hell, I'll take the bait. oneshotcharly, why is it that you think the Hawaii teams are able to spend as much time in the canoe together as the top Tahitian teams? Maybe a few of the paddlers are able to spend that much time doing individual training, but certainly not all of them, and I'm pretty sure they're not all together in the 6 man for 4 hours per day 5 days a week. While I've never been to Tahiti, I've heard training schedules first hand from one Tahitian paddler and second hand from plenty of others quite a bit that lines up with what Tim said. Have you actually heard first hand that the top Hawaiian crews have a similar training schedule?

It seems pretty simple to me. Technique, fitness, and individual skill are extremely important but when you reach a certain point individually, it's the blend of 6 paddlers together that's gonna make your canoe move faster than the other guys'. The more time you spend in the 6 man together, the more chance you have to develop a better blend. Even though Shell has been winning, it's pretty frickin' impressive that the top Hawaii teams can spend half (probably quite a bit less than half over the year) of the time together in the canoe and still so well against them.


#27 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:17pm


Sorry bu ^ but I think you are completely wrong on that one. Those teams train hard don't get me wrong. I am a storng believer in bringing molo back home. But the hours Tahiti spends in a canoe can double an maybe even triple theirs. Which is training if you ask me? They are so dialed in that they probably never practice technique, just focus on speed, getting faster, and application.Everyone says their technique is key. But more importantly their timing is impeccable. Similar to kayaking they only apply positive propulsion,. So even when they fall off a bump, their boat is still flying making it easier to get on the next one.And those teams may do it as livelihood,but most of those paddlers have a job to return to at 5-7 in the morning the next day before "practice" that day. but Tahiti pretty much does it for a Living. Huge different there. While Hawaii practices we worry about if "Justin Tucker" missed his PAT. Tahiti eats sleeps and breaths paddling. All of them thinking they could lose their seat to a fast ass 16 year old. Where Hawaii doesn't take much time to develop the future. Some thing that one day might be a decent investment down the line. Don't you think? But who am I to say. I'm just a novice when it comes to this stuff!!

BOOMSKI!!!


#28 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:21pm


Meant for oneshotcharly


#29 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:22pm


When did the name of the race change? lol. MOLOKA'I HOE. let's not get lazy, that's how we lose our culture.
Anyways, follow our journey, would appreciate everyone's votes. Mahalo!
www.MolokaiHoeChallenge.com

shoots! let's go have fun! ALOHA!


#30 Sun, 09/30/2012 - 9:53pm


Dam this wind looks shitty!


#31 Tue, 10/02/2012 - 3:22pm


Just throwing my opinion out there - which is worth nothing because I dont even do 6 man. Everybody knows Tahitian teams trains twice a day most days of the week. Most people know that teams from Hawaii - Livestrong and Primo included - do NOT train nearly that much. They train just as hard, but not as often. I think, that if those teams had the opportunity to train with that volume - they would win.

ps - Watch some of tahitian689's videos. There are top tahitian guys in v1's and 6man's using all different types of strokes and straight shaft blades, broad reach, pure, and makana alii. Theres no "secret". Grow up paddling. Paddle with the same guys for the most part for years. Get a job that is catered to your training. Win win win.


#32 Tue, 10/02/2012 - 6:32pm


The Tahitian crews do not use different paddles...they are very unifrom in the equipment they use and in how they use their equipment. Seems like double bends from what i saw EDT using yesterday...probably vipers from the logos on the shafts. I would hate to be a a 9 man change race and have all the paddles available being different..especially since some coaches like to mix up the seats along the way.
Anyway,,,,lousy scenario.....SW winds. A 42 mile Liliuokalani race. Should be interesting. I love it when predictions are wrong. would malie conditions favor our Tahitian brothers ?.


#33 Tue, 10/02/2012 - 8:22pm


I meant on v1's you see all different kinds and in the 6 mans they are uniform yes, but still, different brands and even straight shafts - although not very common from the videos ive seen. Odi even has a photo of a shell stroker using a pure paddle on his website.

And yes - not very exciting conditions...


#34 Tue, 10/02/2012 - 9:17pm


Here's my Hawaii top 10. Shell wins again but the heck with them lol. Anyways

Lanikai
Primo
Livestrong
Outrigger
Molokai
Hui lanakila
Keahiakahoe
Healani
Hawaiian
Kai o Pua


#35 Tue, 10/02/2012 - 9:57pm


my top 10 hawaii!

Primo
Lanikai
outrgger
Livestrong
Molokai
Kai o Pua
Keahiakahoe
Hawaiian
Hui lanakila
Keahiakahoe


#36 Wed, 10/03/2012 - 12:06am


Primo/lanikai
Outrigger/livestrong
Kaiopua/Manu/keahiakahoe/Hui lanakilia/Hawaiian/Molokai
Gonna be some interesting races within the race...


#37 Wed, 10/03/2012 - 3:20pm


LIVESTRONG is gonna open your eyes a little more!


#38 Thu, 10/04/2012 - 9:53am


I agree with kkk. The races within the race will be interesting. Hardkoa- I think you need to open you eyes lol jk.


#39 Thu, 10/04/2012 - 10:36pm


k

yeah, there are a bunch of fundamental techniques that have different names depending where you paddle. There is no 'one' technique. Houti, Pine, Tamao, Roa, Huti Pe'e, Whainene plus some more

Kingi


#40 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 10:56am


Kingi, if I remember correctly, some of the strokes are not so much about mechanics. They were described to me as being about hull speed, pace, and intensity. Especially ones like Huti Pe‘e. They are transitions and gear changes and there is a logical order that they are done in. It was described to me like driving a car. You'll blow your transmission if you try and jump from 1st to 4th and then second while going the same speed. As hull speed changes you shift gears or strokes to match it. As the hull speeds up you run through the gears. When accelleration is needed you downshift to a lower gear and pick up the revs to do it. Then shift back to 5th when you're up to speed again. once on the freeway and moving you'd never drop all the way back to first though. only down to third or fourth before getting back to cruising speed and gear. Clear as mud?

To keep my post on topic, I just heard last night that as many as 8 Tahitian boats will be in the race plus the 404 guys. So that's 9 potentially top ten boats from out of state. This year's gonna be a competitive one for sure. Anyone know if the European kayaking sprint heros are in town too?


#41 Fri, 10/05/2012 - 1:58pm


k

gears is a good way for sure. some of the words like 'whainene' for example actually describe a whole sequence of techniques to 'hapainga' or lift the canoe out of the water. good paddlers know this instinctively, some have to have it explained... im still figuring it out, i was told to go away and practice until I understood... i still get well and truely spanked in Tahiti, so Im not really anyone to be an expert, Im just trying to enlighten from what i know so people arent tricked into believing it's like a 'wonder' technique


#42 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 10:56am


There are some one syllable call sounds that mean something to all the paddlers too when uttered at critical times, the response is instantaneous. I have an idea what some are but not for me to say. Cohesive unit would be a good description of a top Tahitian crew.


#43 Fri, 10/05/2012 - 4:22pm


k

yeah "pou-rua!" is quite a common call and i pretty sure means 'go hard'.
"ha'aroa" means 'get up front, or "reach to the long up front", it mainly sounds urgent4
"tera mai" - there it is for a wave (same as "coming", "prepare" or "building" in english) and then the french ones like 'la' (go), the huts are well different, "eeeeeep"


#44 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 11:01am


The Hawaii teams including Primo and Lanikai are training as hard as time, and for most, their jobs and families allow. They are trying their best to represent Hawaii whether "dialup" or club. Some club teams have "new " members that were with other clubs the year prior so in some ways just like "dial up." This is a great race where everyone who participates has sacrified a lot to train for. The Honolulu Marathon as an example is similiar in the sense that invited world class runners win, the Hawaii top runner is still stoked with their personal achievement. It is funny that people on the forum ,some who may not even participate in this race, seem to forget what this is all about- being on the ocean and trying the best you can after training all that your situation allows.Good luck to everyone who participates and congrats to all no matter where you finish.


#45 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 11:49am


Interesting discussion on the different calls for different strokes with international crews... but don't we do that in Hawaii also? I know our crew does. Sure, we might not have one word calls but who ever is calling, and in whatever style, lets the rest of the crew know what they see and then the crew reacts. Whether thats the steersman, or someone in the middle. I know in crews I've paddled with I'm pretty vocal from seat 3 or 4 calling the waves. I've heard of other crews where the steersman prefers to call.. and still others where they are silent and (in theory) everyone is just doing the same thing without anyone having to signal for it.
Again I think it just goes back to time in canoe with the same guys... you learn each other. You learn what each call means whether its "Push" or "Puuuuuuush", "GO" or "Go Go GO", "Tap", "Hit", "Get deep", "Hold us there", "Building", "Get Ready", "on the back" ect ect.
I'm sure each crew has their own language and everyone in the crew learns what it means. Taking us back to what Rambo said.. the crew is thus a "Cohesive Unit". 6 paddling as 1. Or as Jonny Mack would say "everyone has to see da same blue pen"?


#46 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 1:25pm


Paddlefast, great post that pays every competitor in this event the respect they deserve for doing the training, turning up and competing. good luck and a safe crossing to all whether they be hawaiian, tahitian, and of course, the aussies, Trevor from Sydney.


#47 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 3:05pm


1) EDT
2) Shell A
3) Primo
4) Shell B (FYI they have 5 eighteen year olds)
5) Lanakai
6) Outrigger/Tahea/404/Molokai/Live strong/ Hui Lanakila


#48 Sat, 10/06/2012 - 9:59pm


I think Shell for sure. They just seem to really charge it at the Molokai Hoe. Every year when I see them blast out at the start it is amazing. Foot on the gas the whole way.


#49 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 6:10am


What's going on today in the race ?


#50 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 12:29pm


1st shell

1st hawaii livestrong

results updating live here http://molokaihoe.com/results.html


#51 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 1:51pm


http://molokaihoe.com/results.html


#52 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 1:44pm


Looks to me when the Ocean Paddler live feed stopped, the results stopped being recorded at that site.


#53 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 2:59pm


uhhh yankee, you may want to select the number of finishers displayed at bottom. they have at least 100 finishers recorded. or click on those numbers shown at top and bottom that display the next page of results. right under the bold lettering that says 100 finishers found.


#54 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 4:14pm


told you LIVESTRONG was gonna open your eyes!


#55 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 4:35pm


Congrats to LiveStrong.

The 18 minute gap from 2nd to 3rd place is mind-blowing.

Also 21 minute gap between top Tahitian and first Hawaiian Crew.

Yes they will be partying in Tahiti.

Sounds like Lanikai had bad line that cost them some minutes.

Interesting that Hawaii crews and their fans (Me too) get tricked. We think this year we are stronger and faster and will be closer to Tahiti, but Tahiti also gets fitter and faster every year too.


#56 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 5:15pm


HardKoa- yeah a bunch of eyes are opened now. Lol atleast the ones on the forum. Livestrong did good. It wasn't bout line but about be an animal and pounding the whole race. That's gonna light a fire under Livestrong's butt and they will only get faster.


#57 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 6:39pm


Kona J, you hit the nail on the head. i've wanted to say somethig like that for years but always refrained for fear of getting flamed by the old guard. the closest any Hawai'i crew ever got to shell was 12 minutes. unless people change the way they train (and some people are) no one will close the gap. when talking to my buddies offline I was guessing 20-25 minutes from shell to the first Hawai'i crew. i too am surprised and am stoked that a new bunch of locals has joined the fray.


#58 Sun, 10/07/2012 - 7:46pm


Livestrong killed it. 2 of their guys were over 40 and I think 1 was even 50. Best part is - they all have real jobs and real world responsibilities. And they will get faster. Not saying they will beat a pro team - yes - tahiti are pro's - but they will get faster. I know the steersman and all this did was light a fire under that guy. He was racing novice b's less than 5 years ago.


#59 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 6:09am


duduslow, it was a good performance on their part and im sure having primo on there toe's kept them working non stop. There still developing there program and bringing up younger guy's and in these next 2-3 years they'll be the force. Mark my words!


#60 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 7:48am


rumor had it that shell B was an under 20 team. a boat of teenagers finished third! unreal. they're not even old enough to be professional yet. crazy.

if there's any level everyone in the world should be able to compete on it would be when people are young, have no family, no mortgage, and no responsibility...


#61 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 8:45am


Shell B wasn't a under 20 crew, but across the board they are a young team. Couple crew members raced in previous Molokai with first crew.


#62 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 9:44am


Shell B had 5 eighteen year olds. EDT had 3.


#63 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 10:16am


rumor was wrong... they only had 5 teenagers. phew!


#64 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 12:44pm


More fun facts: EDT started with 12 minute changes, then 10, 8 and 5 minute changes at end of race! What were your crews changing on? They also paddled with 1,3,5 on the left for several minutes at a time during this race.


#65 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 6:01pm


Yes we all know livestrong proves themselves well!!! All the props in Hawaii there. But is it just me or is hardkoas cockiness irritating??? Haha


#66 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 6:08pm


Livestrong did do great and congrats to them. But fully surprising im not sure. They have been knocking on the door for years so its not like they went from top 20s to top 5 they were top 10 material for some years.I also believe these conditions favored them. And I dont think primo put in the same amount of training as the previous years. The crew I was with did your basic 1,3,5...2,4...1,2,4 type changes every 15 min no tricky stuff no game plans. Whether it worked perfectly "no" but thats just how we rolled. The crew next to us were changing every 10 mins. We got tired at the end but hey who didnt.I did notice on video at the finish shell was pounding away and changing every 7-8 strokes...is this consistent for them in flat waters? or was it just a way to finish a race? Our crew definitely had fun but tough races within a race!!


#67 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 6:57pm


He seems cocky and probably doesn't even paddle lol. Did Livestrong really have someone over 50? That's rad!


#68 Mon, 10/08/2012 - 9:23pm


I think Masepa Tanoai is over 50 for Livestrong. And by the way, there are a lot of good paddlers over 50, look at how well Mooloolaba 50s did, a crew entirely over 50 that nearly cracked the top 10!


#69 Tue, 10/09/2012 - 2:41am


@unklekahi in sprint races the tahitian crews I've paddled with change on 6-8 strokes they told me for surf races there is no magic number just whatever the ocean tells them... And that in this race they were 1,3,5 on the left for over a minute at times.

To add to the talk about tahitian teams being "professionals" and blah blah wah wah... How about team Tahaa? In Tahiti they are a top 20 crew of home grown paddlers from the small island of Tahaa. No big money, no pay to paddle. They work, have families and train hard. Then they come Hawaii and place 6th! Granted they did have Eric Deane steering them (OPT top steersman) for Molokai hoe. But I think that still illustrates what you get when you find a nucleus of dedicated paddlers who show up and put the time in (sponsored or not). A good Hawaii example is the Moloka'i boys who have one or two 50 year olds and came 16th.. No one heard of these guys two years ago but they are steadily climbing the ladder.. By training hard and putting in the time. The results are full of crews like this...Hanalei! Puuwai? I never even heard of Puuwai before they broke down the door for Pailolo this being first across the line and then placed top 25 in a hard field for Molokai Hoe. Lastly the Tahitian Ohana crew of masters that came 9th and Astralian 50's that placed 11th.... Neither of these crews get paid to paddle.
As a matter of fact Shell, EDT and OPT are really the only powerhouse crews who have the resources to recruit top paddlers in Tahiti. The rest rely on the same things all other paddlers rely on: training.


#70 Tue, 10/09/2012 - 9:20am


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