Anyone familiar with the v-1 canoes ,what is hot in v-1 scene now,post some picts
Submitted by canoemaker on Fri, 05/09/2008 - 1:18pm
Anyone familiar with the v-1 canoes ,what is hot in v-1 scene now,post some picts
Submitted by canoemaker on Fri, 05/09/2008 - 1:18pm
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I'm not keen on the leg over the side, the cross bow rudder actually works better, I am thinking there is no efficient way to do the turn, just pick the most efficient inefficient method.
And Ramboscie, your back, now I've drawn you out for two posts in two continents.
Where can we go next!
#71 Sun, 08/30/2009 - 11:14pm
2 easy ways: First way would be to just use a reverse bow jam with the paddle on the right side of the bow. 2nd way would be to approach the buoy very fast with a hard sweep on the right, then duffek on the left side up to the forward ama and using a pitched (C) stroke pull the bow to the blade using a reverse sweep (clockwise), which continues sweeping under the canoe to the tail and then continues pushing the stern (j-stroke) away from the blade (all in one continuous motion). The 3rd hard and fancy way would be to repeat the 2nd way, but fly the ama by heeling the canoe on its side, almost to the gunnels, and spinning it around (now this will take a lot of practice on an outrigger because the blade is in the water on the ama side, but very easy to do on a monohull).
ps: Reverse bow jamb is where you poke as close to the bow as possible with the face of the blade on the outside. The paddle blade will deflect the water and turn the bow in the opposite connection. Practice with old wooden paddle first, so you don't spoil the finish of your favorite paddle. Also, don't recommend using carbon shafts, for they will crack if done incorrectly.
#72 Mon, 08/31/2009 - 9:56am
Canoemaker:
Hot on the V1 Scene:
Kamanu's new V-1:
Brand new, untested, but a good strong company and a nice OC1 to their credit.
http://kamanucomposites.com/
Maui Kanu: New lay-ups coming this month i hear. Should be lighter and stronger. Possibly coming to Europe soon.
http://www.mauikanu.co.nz/index.htm
http://www.maoliwaa.com
Tiger Canoe: Tiger has posted several pics of their last canoe.
http://www.tigercanoe.com/
What else is hot?
http://www.superaito-tahiti.pf/
http://www.sports.gov.pf/6578-18eme-edition-SUPER-AITO.html
http://www.vaatahiti.com
http://www.hawaiivaa.org/
http://www.maoliwaa.com/Maoli_Waa/Blog/Blog.html
And super hot: Taaroa Dubois (nice last name huh :)
#73 Mon, 08/31/2009 - 3:24pm
Took the V1 for a 50km spin in prep for a race on the same course next month. I was surprised it went like a rocket, but my left side started to pack up after 25km's then came good again when I concentrated on technique but a sweep and a draw had alot less power after that!
#74 Mon, 09/07/2009 - 2:19am
Clarkie,
If you want to turn easily, then try a canoe with a bit more rocker. I took my old lagoon canoe out for a spin last night and almost crashed into the dock using a combination off side draw and onside sweep. Had to come to all stops to avoid the crash. Lagoon canoes track well but turn reluctantly. Anyway, if all else fails, at least there's reliable Murph with a joke or two to cheer you up?
#75 Mon, 09/07/2009 - 4:31pm
i can't resist. this beauty just hit the water today. a killer collaboration between Johnny Puakea and Keizo Gates. way to go guys. they were nice enough to let me jump in for a quick spin... she looks and runs pretty sweet.
someone got video of Luke dropping into a nice wave off of castle point on it. me thinks it's on you tube somewhere.
#76 Mon, 09/07/2009 - 7:50pm
Sweet ama there jc9_0
#77 Mon, 09/07/2009 - 9:36pm
the ama is nice, but this is nicer. camera work by KJ with iPhone. the paddling paparazzi are out. featured paddlers makana, luke, and some chubby old guy.
#78 Mon, 09/07/2009 - 11:13pm
Speaking of amas, it seems like almost all of the Tahitian V1 still use lashing to rig the ama and 'iako while almost everyone else has gone snap in.
Anyone with experience on both want to comment on which they prefer and why?
#79 Thu, 09/10/2009 - 10:36am
There is a direct connection between the meaning of 'outrigger' and the rigging.........lose the rigging abnd you lose part of what makes an outrigger an outrigger, including infinite adjustability.
Nothing is gained by the snap on pipe option except for a very small weight advantage and cheap easy mass production.
#80 Thu, 09/10/2009 - 2:41pm
bump, set and spike. A perfect set up.
#81 Thu, 09/10/2009 - 3:34pm
For anyone who doesn't speak "WAKA" let me translate the above post for you.
"Everything that I make is good and cool. Everything that anyone else makes is junk. In fact, it's not even a real canoe. Especially if it's made in Hawaii, where all they like to do is mass produce surf skis with ama's. Buy my canoes.
Did I mention that I sell canoes?"
#82 Thu, 09/10/2009 - 3:42pm
BUMBWANKA has something lame to say again
#83 Thu, 09/10/2009 - 4:55pm
Man, I thought we had seen the last of goodwaka. Wish I could say it was good to have him back, but nothing has really changed there…
Too bad, because his comment about adjustability sort of makes sense. It might be better received if it wasn't wrapped in a veneer of indignation.
So, people other than goodwaka, does the adjustability you loose when going with snap in 'iako really matter that much? I'm guessing most people will never be able to tell the difference, just curious what others thought…
#84 Fri, 09/11/2009 - 4:51am
How many paddlers truly know how to adjust an ama based on conditions? We tweek the front up or down, pull it in a little tighter in flat water, but that's it. The adjustability of traditional rigging is probably warranted for the top guys, but speaking as an average paddler, I like knowing that my snap or twist-on iakos make the ama line up correctly. I'm willing to let Keizo, Kai, etc. make a good, average alignment. When the .025" my ama needs adjusting becomes the reason I'm losing races, I'll bust out the tape measure and rubbers. Until then, give me the 20-second rigging with pretty good alignment.
#85 Fri, 09/11/2009 - 10:36am
I guess it all depends on the purpose and use? Since I remember the days of shims, bushings, innertubes and elevated/adjustable wae; all I want to say is that I sure was glad that after a wipeout in the surf, my canoe survived most of the time w/o damage. After all, something has to give. Today's rigid fixed and fast set up do not hold up very well in the shore break surf.
ps: and if you like surf Makaha, at least with the old way, you can rig the ama on the right. Today, no more choice. So if the wave break right, you out of luck.
#86 Fri, 09/11/2009 - 11:18am
traditional tahitian setup wins hand down in terms of setup and trim but the alu iakos are simple and easy to handle ,so more userfriendly for most people ,to snap the pieces together and go paddle.
But i love both looks and infinite trim posibility of the Tahitian style rig
#87 Sat, 09/12/2009 - 10:29am
I love the va'a, they are better for my bad back. the only change I would make is to give it a kicker
#88 Sat, 09/12/2009 - 1:53pm
sorry but what is a kicker ?
#89 Sat, 09/12/2009 - 7:11pm
One kicker is usually a small outboard motor used for backup in case the main engine peel.
#90 Sat, 09/12/2009 - 10:37pm
Isn't it just great to have a choice though?
If adhering to tradition pushes your button, then lovingly set the shim and bind that rubber to give you that personal touch with a traditional Va'a. On the other hand, you appreciate the Va'a for what it is, a rudderless craft that requires extra skills over that of an OC1, but you don't want to be fussed with "frigging the rigging" and just need to get on the water and learn the skills, so you dock the metal ama, pop the clip and go paddle.
Nothing wrong with either of these, makes it accessible to more people.
Just take what you want out of paddling, the choice is yours to make .... but respect for the canoe in all it's forms is what is utmost important in my mind.
Cheers Rambo
#91 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 11:24am
Very well said Rambo.
#92 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 11:51am
A kicker is a place to transfer the energy from your body to the canoe through your feet , even better to wedge yourself between the kicker and backrest so you make the canoe and extension of yourself with, with full respect to the canoe.
#93 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 12:47pm
an outboard motor ? mulus, you must be joking !
#94 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 12:48pm
ok?
#95 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 12:50pm
"Friggin the rigging" doesn't sound a whole lot "respectful"
#96 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 12:52pm
Hahahah.... Just Aussie slang, take no notice of what the dictionary say's.
R
#97 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 1:59pm
Aussie slang for canoes sounds maybe a bit like what i heard working for an American OC manufacturer (here in NZ).......the in shop process was called 'chucking shit into moulds'.
Could be i take these things too seriously but the repect seemed to be missing
#98 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 2:57pm
Goodwaka, the ultimate respect should be reserved for the master carvers of the Koa canoes or the likes of Mike Tavioni from the Cook Islands, in fact any carver in the world that has the skills to create a canoe from scratch using hand tools and what nature provides.
I guess "chucking shit in molds" as you put it just isn't the same, but that's up to the individual to interpret. Personally, any canoe that give me the pleasure of being on the ocean and bringing me much joy get's my respect.
Yep i think you probably look for what's wrong with the world rather than see the many things that are right.
Cheers Rambo
#99 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 3:25pm
Rambo: you may have something there in your psycho analysis, but you get it wrong when you say that 'chucking shit into moulds is what i say'.
Creating any boat from scratch is an achievment whatever the materials used.
#100 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 3:38pm
... well you did ask ..hahaha. i'm only agreeing with you.
All good.
Cheers Rambo
#101 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 4:10pm
"Creating any boat from scratch is an achievment whatever the materials used"
what?!?! you were just bagging on a boat for having aluminum iako, now it becomes and achievement, what gives?
#102 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 7:45pm
No bagging in any of my posts on this thread, just stating the simple facts.
An analogy would be to compare a BigMac with a square meal of steak and vegs.....the fast food BigMac equates to the standardised quick fit snap on job, and the square meal equates to the more demanding lash-on system.
I'm not saying that the BigMac is not food, but it is different to to a wholesome home cooked meal.
When the difference is looked at, then the facts are offered.
#103 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 9:44pm
rubbers are inventions of evil non-cultured modern man. Real paddlers use rope for rigging...or maybe stretched skin of a slain enemy...
Another analogy...
steak & veg ( a wholesome home cooked meal) would be a Big Mac compare to eating homegrown tofu and vegetables.
Another analogy...
the act of eating itself would be a Big Mac compared to what Buddha did, starving himself to reach enlightenment.
By the way, do they still not give free ketchups down there ?
#104 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 10:35pm
Thank you Mulus for explaining what a "kicker" is. I now stand corrected, for I was still thinking of that paddler out in Kailua Bay paddling a Naia with mini outboard motor mounted on a transom attached to rear iako. Maybe most of you no remember them 3 boarders with outboards? Anyway, "kicker" or kick/foot bar, is what them Mainland or Canadian river paddlers use when racing their canoes. I didn't notice any kickers installed on any of the various V-1's I looked at out at Kualoa on Saturday. However, I did notice an inflated plastic beach ball stuffed into forward section of one of the V-1's. Perhaps the beach ball acted as a "kicker?" Or better yet: made the cockpit smaller, so less water entered the cockpit when huli and provided more floatation for re-entry?
Rambo, because the V-1 tracks straight-ahead better than a rudderless OC-1, I would say it is easier to paddle straight as an arrow with a V-1. However, since an OC-1 has considerable more rocker than a V-1 (which probably has none), it is actually easier to turn an OC-1. So there is a trade off depending on one's paddling skills. I say let both craft race side by side, and let the ocean conditions determine the best craft to race with, rudderless of course.
#105 Sun, 09/13/2009 - 11:52pm
Koa, all i know is i dislike paddling a Hurricane without a rudder. It has no lean left, lean right control like a V1. I guess in the ocean the leaning control is negated anyway even in a V1 as the canoe pitches anyway.
R
#106 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 1:36am
paddle easy: " rubbers are inventions of evil non-cultured modern man"
Hey, rubber comes from trees!
-- " The act of eating itself would be Big Mac compared to what Buddha did, starving himself to reach enlightenment"
"By the way, do they still not give free ketchup down there"
Buddha would only be good for downwind with a rudder on his diet (ha,ha,ha)...........ketchup was given free the last time i got fries only at Mc D a while back, but only when i asked for it. Now if they would start selling raw fish salad at Mc D they can keep all their ketchup.
#107 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 9:52am
Rambo, from what I saw at last Saturday's Hat race, most of the paddlers assumed the "squared away" position or stance. Only when rounding the island did a few fly the ama as they surfed the baby breakers. It will be interesting to see how the V-1 design evolves over the next few years as more and more paddlers take up the sport. Today, the V-1 is designed for speed and feels somewhat like a K-1 with its bow parting the water. Personally, I'd prefer it to be more of a trick boat with shorter length and more rocker. But that's just me.
ps: Wait till the Canadians discover this craft, for it is the ideal boat for them and all they need is a spray skirt to do their eskimo rolls.
#108 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 10:07am
mulus, we posted almost simunateously... and I didn't red your answer till now.
FYI in Tahiti, every V1 comes with a "kicker" now. I call them footplates. Since they are glassed and not adjustable, the builder ask for your size before glassing them.
Maybe the V&s that were exported were not equiped with footplates because of size matters...
#109 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 11:54am
Hiro, is the kicker (footplate) only a new addition to the V1 in Tahiti or were they always optional?
Cheers Rambo
#110 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 12:13pm
They come with every new vaa since we were allowed to install footpumps... i.e. 2 years ago.
#111 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 2:58pm
That's great to hear the next one I make will have one. are your yako's made out of a hard wood? and how much do they weigh? We use Cedar but its soft, I've been told to get a stiffer yakos like aluminum but I like the woodies I see on the south pacific web sites. & Super AITO video. I love the feeling of the Pegasus's yako set up you can lift it with your hip .
#112 Mon, 09/14/2009 - 7:24pm
Just wondering when a V-1 will be made especially for the heavy 220+ pound paddler? The nifty state of the art ones available for demo at Kualoa seemed appropriate for those paddlers way under 200 pounds. For optimum performance, I don't think the one size fits all would work, unless a paddler weighed between 120 - 180 pounds? Guess I'll just have to lose weight?
#113 Tue, 09/15/2009 - 1:57am
the Ah Mihn and Kamanu boats I have paddled seem to work well for me. i tip the scales at over 190 lbs right now. not sure what the optimum design weight is for either one though.
#114 Tue, 09/15/2009 - 7:25am
Koacanoe, you don't have to loose weight if you don't want to..... You can see Mihimana Ah Mihn as an example. He was one of the haviest guys and finished top 10 on Super Aito.
It's in your mind. Same way sometimes I think I should find a way to grow taller to be faster lol =D
#115 Tue, 09/15/2009 - 11:46am
Thanks IwouldGo, but you can sure as well bet that Mihimana's canoe was personally made for him, trimmed and tricked out (optimized) for his size and weight too. So he could perform as well as a lighter paddler in a less displacement outrigger canoe. Anyways, if I was to order a V-1 today, I would specify that it could handle up to 250 pounds, have adjustable foot bars [fore and aft (so I can paddle kneeling too)].
#116 Tue, 09/15/2009 - 12:59pm
iato are made of Purau, Hibiscus tiliaceus. Hawaian name for this wood is Hau bush.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibiscus_tiliaceus
It's a light wood with a nice grain. beautiful colors, from white to green to purple.
also quite rot resistant and flexible.
now some V1 have carbon fiber iato. they don't fex at all... i don't like it.
Not so sure. he sure had a light canoe but his brother Wilfred Ah Min is a big guy (around 180-200lbs) and he builds canoes for big guys. Philippe Bernadino also builds for heavy paddlers... tha average tahitian paddler is not so light...
#117 Tue, 09/15/2009 - 10:16pm
So much to read! But I noticed no questions were posted on surfing? and how to best surf in a V-1? I've been training V-1 for 4-5 months and getting ready to race in the Cook Islands soon. Any tips on surfing the V-1 (open ocean)
#118 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 1:28am
Susanna, best thing would be to watch some rudderless videos many of them are here
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=tahitian689
See you in Nov at the Cookies
Cheers Rambo
#119 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 1:41am
Susanna,
Rambo's right - check out some video. The 2009 Super Aito DVD is sweet! I watched it before racing around the hat last weekend.
Also, I've found that if you race against only novices, it appears as if you're way better than you actually are... or maybe worse. Depends how you look at it.
#120 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 5:15am
I was wondering if it would be a bad thing to put a skeg on a canoe similar to a surfboard . just to keep it straight when your catching bumps. a little drag but, as you all know when the currents or wind want you go in the opposite direction of where your heading it makes for a long paddle. I love watching the making of the boards
#121 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 6:38am
unfortunately it would no longer be a V1 if you put a skeg on it. The deep V in the hull acts as your directional support, making it the challenge that is rudderless paddling.
However a small little skeg that could be easily added and removed might be nice for the novice paddler trying out a V1 and might decrease the frustration level.
Susanna the best is to get out into it, or if that not possible maybe a small long rolling surf wave - I've found (just yesterday actually) you have to keep the intensity up while paddling V1 in surf, as soon as I got complacent, i'd spin and get off track. But the videos are a nice place to start, plus there really sweet videos.
#122 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 9:06am
Mulus: as long as it is a fixed skeg, like some surfskis employ to lock them on the wave for a longer run. Only problem, you forget about them when carrying, handling and storing the boat, so they bust off or scratch other boats stored near them. Also hard to slide them on the rack when storing the boat and can damage car roof too.
#123 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 9:09am
Koacanoe, Mihimana Ah Mihn was using Ah Mihn canoe, representing his family business. If you compare the Ah Mihn to a Timi Va'a for example you can notice that Ah Mihn has more volume on the cockpit area which I think is better for the havier paddlers. For me the Ah Mihn is huge! The ideal is the cockpit to fit on your hips like you were "wearing" the canoe.... It might not be a comfortable feeling for you, 'cause you're not used to it.... but I really like when the V1 in tight on my hips....
P.S.: I forgot to mention that I used Mihimana's canoe one day with one of his teammates from Paddling Connection, and except for the fact that the canoe was super light, the model was pretty much the same as the Ah Mihns you see here in Hawaii.
#124 Wed, 09/16/2009 - 8:58pm
for the haters out there. you know who you are.
#125 Thu, 09/17/2009 - 12:24pm
Nice to know that someone shares my thoughts on DUMBWAKA
#126 Thu, 09/17/2009 - 2:46pm
On the subject of skegs for tracking ability, and also the effect of hull volume........I have tried putting a skeg on a well rockered hull, sure the tracking is straight and true, but turning is a bugger. Even a very grippy tail end without a skeg can be a problem in chop, because the underwater hull area that stops sideways slip is the same area that is pushed sideways by wave action.
Having a tail end that has just enough lateral grip for tracking is the answer, and of course the amount of hull immersion is effected by displacement. Paddler weight relative to hull volume, and trim, determines how the hull ends sit in the water
#127 Thu, 09/17/2009 - 3:08pm
The V1 I have borrowed is made under licence from the Vaa Factory. It did not come with a kicker, Bondy fitted an adjustable footbar similar to the set up on a cruiser or pro-boat. I don't know how you could paddle one without something to put your feet on. Must be why I am not fond of sixes.
We use rubber on this model as Zulu wanted to stay true to the tradition and original design. It was a pain putting it together at first but there is a fair bit of weight difference between me and Bondy and the chocks we use are completely different. Getting the trim perfect for the conditions, in my case river paddling, is much more precise with rubber. Pins just get you there or there abouts. Rigging with rope, bugger that, can't have too much tradition biting into my paddling time trying to set it up.
And respect for canoes, I love all canoes, I treat them like members of the family. Don't tell Mrs Clarkie I said that!!@#@#$%.
#128 Fri, 09/18/2009 - 3:31am
choose a V1 that is tight on your hips (as Emili said), lock your knees on the cockpit, wax the hull where your feet are... A footbar/footplate/kicker is much more comfortable.
#129 Fri, 09/18/2009 - 8:23am
Yeah Hiro, you know what you're saying.
I love that "quote": "shut up and paddle"
go figure it out... do whatever it takes on that boat, on that moment,..., to make it move. Or don't!!! =)
#130 Fri, 09/18/2009 - 9:17am
I'm not going to say "shut up !" to anyone... I like talking too much ! ;-)
#131 Fri, 09/18/2009 - 11:04am
the latest in kicker technology. carbon wrapped around an EPS core. she's a light one.
#132 Sat, 09/19/2009 - 11:16pm
Let me guess, the new Kamanu rudderless?
#133 Sun, 09/20/2009 - 12:03am
Wonder if will the V-1 have adjustable footplates like flat water boats anytime soon ,to me of this kickers stuff sounds bizzare ,as you are talking of it as if its some special preformace mod, it is a simple piece of plywood laminated in to the boat
#134 Sun, 09/20/2009 - 12:25am
The footbrace is made by me. So your right canoemaker, it is a non adjustable peice of poo. But it only has to fit me since it's my boat. In full production boats I am told there will be fully adjustable "kicker" plus the seating will be adjustable forward/aft, up/down, as well as pitch adjustment. Giving an infinite amount of rigging options, ala wakameister. How you like them apples?
Not sure who makes the boat shown in picture. But guess all you like.
#135 Sun, 09/20/2009 - 1:34am
I paddled tigers rudderless without a footplate, and another with a footplate mod installed and I cant understand why anyone would want to go without one.
#136 Sun, 09/20/2009 - 5:25am
Maybe a legless paddler !
#137 Sun, 09/20/2009 - 12:11pm
Regarding foot plates or foot rests, please check out http://nelo.eu/ for their assortment of foot rests. Some have pull bars or come with either carbon or neoprene straps. The stuff is located under fitting heading. Perhaps a swivel seat might be the next option to get?
ps: put a wae on a Vanquish, add iako and ama - away we go..........................
#138 Mon, 09/21/2009 - 12:50am
Article about what's hot in Tahiti: http://www.maoliwaa.com/Maoli_Waa/Maoli_Waa_International_Paddling_Scene...
Va'a Factory canoes... Rivaling Timi Va'a for top paddlers... check out the list of names riding for Va'a Factory.
-Charles
#139 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 2:34pm
Not sure which model I am paddling but Mark from Zulu is making a Vaa Factory V1 for Lemmy in Australia in traditional (rubber) design. It is a nice canoe and I am starting to get it going on the river, even survived some fierce sidewinds yesterday, and it would sit on the sidewash of an OC2, got to be happy with that. See if if can survive against ruddered canoes on 17th October when we race 50km on the Murray River.
Still don't know how you paddle them on the ocean!
#140 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 3:22pm