I don't know if this thread has been done before... But what are your thoughts on hull applications that make the craft go faster than a similar craft without the application.
The marketing jibe is from 15 -25% improvement in speed.
I see that there are a few brands on the market,
* Hyspeedkote,
* Xtreme Cream,
* sea Slide and probable a lot more.
I do not know if this is still the case, but such sprays/creams were banned on Olympic Kayaks/Canoes.
The Australian Institute of Sport has some litriture that states that there is some bias when used.
I see alot of Outrigger shots in the marketing of most products, so I guess it must be out there.
So do these sprays, creams really work?
Submitted by ocpaddler on Fri, 06/20/2008 - 10:56pm
15-25% increase is total B.S. (or poop as we say here). If that was true I could put some on my canoe and beat Jr., Danny C., etc. Or maybe thats why they are beating us. They're not really better paddlers, they just have da magic cream on their canoes.
I wish.
#1 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 5:23am
And as jc used to say, "more lotion".
#2 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 5:32am
Considerable research has actually been done in this area and why some athletes who come here for the molo surfski race in the past have actually spent time applying certain supposed "secret x" compounds on to the surface of their hull. It has to do with the resistance caused by the wetted surface and is not unlike the "microchannels" built into the new full body swim suits that some of the swimmers used in the last olympics - the concept is to channel the water flow, and in the case of the substance application, to reduce the drag on the wetted surface.
I have to head out so I need to end it here but if you're interested, you can read the attached pdf document:
As far as the olympics banning it, I dont think that is true currently. Theres been some "look" into that for use at this years games.
A hui hou~
#3 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 7:18am
I'm sure that there can be a small effect, and in olympic K1 on smooth water where you're talking fractions of a second it may serve a purpose. But in real world ocean paddling I've got my doubts.
#4 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 8:00am
Was pointed out in the last thread here that the sailing teams with multi million dollar budgets who actually do tow tests in water dont use these coatings and rather sand the hull, also that water sticks even to a coated hull so it is a water to water resistance. Scaling and dimpling are a different story, as are the sub hulls that have pores which excrete hydrophobic substances.
These coating do keep crap from sticking to the hull so that is nice. Search the archives for the full story!
#5 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 9:10am
Have been here before look at the previous tread about this http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/3402
And reason for outlawing anything in Olyimpics or in sport in general is not preformance gain,but rather keeping a level field
#6 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 9:13am
Wow, it took a years worth of restraint not to pound this thread with a cornucopia of jokes. So you guys are screwed for the rest of the year.
You know this has been something on my mind as many others. It seems (this is totally my opinion) that after reading some and talking to people some, that a smooth clean hull is the best surface. jibofo has an excellent point. If there is a product that makes you 15-20% faster then people within 30 to 50 minutes of Jr. should be beating him. Unless Jr. is using it. Maybe thats why he's winning. Damnit, where can I find these products so I can go and waste my money?
#7 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 9:22am
To elaborate - definitely Jibofo hits the mark on this - you can apply all the miracle substance on the hull or do directional sanding and it won't make a significant difference in open ocean races. Training, technique, learning to 'read' the ocean, and flying that 'ama will more than likely get you that 15-20 percent gain if not more.
Nevertheless, its a good point to raise by OCpaddler and something that probably has more significance at the sprint level where times are much closer together.
#8 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 7:58pm
Could it be possible that all these creams/sprays pollute the sea ? Don' t believe in magic, believe in training.
#9 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 8:28pm
Hmmm sounds like you guys are using the stuff and not wanting to let on.
And yes the 15 -25% would have to be on flat water.
I ......or any of the marketing stuff did not claim to make you a better surfer, a better technical paddler...just make the hull of your craft more effecient than that of one that is not coated.
So comparing times in a surfing race is not logical. Skill is a major factor. it is the paddler that chooses the better lines and has the fitness and skill that wins.
I think there is alot more to this stuff and I was wondering if anyone had actually used any.
Like I stated, the marketing had quotes, and photos of outriggers, as well as kayakers and speed boats.
I accept that there are those that do not believe, but but if there are actually people using the stuff, I would be interested on your take.
The thread, that someone said that had been covered before was actually about sanding and cleaning discolored hulls. Not a similar thread in my mind.
Heck, Karel snr has a kayaking background, so maybe Jnr has the inside on using the stuff? (not saying he does!)
After all it is not banned..in Outrigging and only costs about $20.
I wouldn't call it magic.
Some hull surfaces are better than others...maybe ...just maybe a good hull could be improved apon by preparing it with a polymer solution that allows the hull to move more effeciently through the water.
I gave you the names of three products of the products on the market, look up the testimonies...maybe just maybe a $20 or less investment could give you an edge.
#10 Sat, 06/21/2008 - 10:54pm
Im no veteran but I have never heard one single person ever mention putting anything on their hull here on the Big Island. Not saying it isnt so but if it worked that well then you would hear something about somebody using it. I believe in training just like hiro sais. If I were to ever go so far as to "lube my hull" I would be too embarrassed to say so. I think the big secret is all in the "bap, bap, bap". Those 3 big strokes that get you on a bump. You see people get that down and they leave others behind like they are playing with tubes of lotion.
#11 Sun, 06/22/2008 - 3:58am
Another thing to consider. These creams are talking about reducing friction of the water against the hull. But as the article that kala attached states, there is the skin friction and the displacement drag. I think that if you look into it, the displacement drag is more than 99% of the total drag. So even if these creams reduce the the skin friction, the total effect is minimal. Half of nothing is still nothing.
Train harder.
#12 Sun, 06/22/2008 - 8:09am