I just wanted to let everyone know that Karel was given my Zephyer last week with a huge crack near the back of the seat and turned it out in less then 10 days for me to keep my training on track for distance season...thanks once again for service par none...aloha eddie
Submitted by eddiesurfhawaii on Sun, 07/13/2008 - 9:18am
That`s great news Eddie, but what caused the crack? You been shorebreak surfing? Parking lot damage?
I finally got my Zephyr last week and broke my own pr on it the first time out at Blackburn yesterday .
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#1 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 12:15pm
has to be the chines.
#2 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 12:23pm
Larry Cain was the man at Blackburn yesterday .
Smoked everyone , by a huge margine , :)
And Colleen Moore broke the course record by 4 minutes 27 seconds for the women .
JRs` course record of 2:47:10 still stands
http://www.blackburnchallenge.com/results.asp
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#3 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 2:19pm
i thought th' outrigger connection boats be indestructible an' faster then th' speed o' sound.
#4 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 1:17pm
Glad Karel fixed your boat since he never made good on the crappy stingrays he stuck us with on the East Coast.
#5 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 2:53pm
Frosso ,
Since you are a self admitted disgruntled customer of Karels why don`t you elaborate here with the whole truth of your displeasure?
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#6 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 3:41pm
ahhhh, jus' when i thought this be goin' t' be an outrigger connection advertisement o' a thread, we do a 180. man th' internet be fun.
#7 Sun, 07/13/2008 - 8:15pm
I have on previous post http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/1827 and http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/1322
Even Fuzerider tried to help out to no avail. It's always the same excuse "those boats were made by Current Design so take it up with them". Funny how our boats say OUTRIGGER CONNECTION in big letters on the hull.
Every boat had split seams, the amas delaminated where they are tightened and they had multiple soft spots in the hull. Sent a certified letter to Karel and never got any response.
I manage construction and when a subcontractor screws up I still have to fix it even if the sub walks away. Guess it doesn't work that way in the boat world.
#8 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 1:37am
Ouch!!! Nice bitch slap frosso.
#9 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 6:39am
Sounds like Frosso should order his next OC boat from Hawaii!
#10 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 7:02am
To clarify Frossos remarks :
The "stingrays" she`s talking about were made many years ago in Canada by Current Designs and were OC1 canoes .
They are not the Stingray 2s
built in Karelsshop in China .None of the dealers for Karel have any canoes made by Current Designs.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#11 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 8:38am
These Stingrays were purchased BRAND NEW and manufactured under license from Outrigger Connection by Current Designs. Everyone (Outrigger Connection, Current Designs & Wenonah) washed their hands of the issue and left the customers high and dry...or should I say wet and sinking.
Hope no quality issues happen with the manufacturer in China or Outrigger Connection might be saying....take it up with China.
#12 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 9:04am
BTW, Fuzerider is a great guy. I just can't forgive Karel for turning his back on his East Coast customers.
#13 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 9:25am
Seems that someone forgot their marching orders when posting. Repeat after me:
All OC boats are the best boats.
There will never be a problem with OC boats.
If there is a problem with OC boats, which will never happen, it's the owner's fault.
If you mention any problems, which will never happen, on public forums, then you will be banished for life from the OC International Team Riders and any privileges that may or may not come with such designation.
#14 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 9:28am
that's the nature of business.. don't matter if things are great now, if a company screwed someone in the past somehow, then those people have the right (and the forum) to keep bitching(forever if need be) until it gets addressed... there is no statute of limitations on bad customer service that was not solved...
#15 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 9:51am
I heard that the problem was so big that had they honored thier commitment to one customer they would have to honor all and the repairs/replacement of so many canoes would have bankrupted them. Seems it came down to a kill or be killed situation.
#16 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 12:26pm
ah aye, thar`s nothin' like a survival situation t' brin' ou' th' best in us all. kill or be killed i always say
#17 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 12:40pm
paddleeatsleep wrote:
"I heard that the problem was so big that had they honored thier commitment to one customer they would have to honor all and the repairs/replacement of so many canoes would have bankrupted them. Seems it came down to a kill or be killed situation."
Not really the case. Long story short, I bought a Stingray from Current Designs, they told me 6 weeks...took 6 months (said they made a couple boats but they weren't up to their standards) finally got my boat and it was pretty much a POS. Soft spots, delamination, seam issues, last straw was a rudder peddle came off during a race. Called and complained like crazy. Initially ignored. Wrote Karel...no response. Finally got in touch with Boss at CD. They said they would make me a new boat, but I'd have to wait a few months while they filled back orders. Months went by, I was promised a new boat in 6 weeks. I went into the hospital for 2 months. No word from CD. Got out of the hospital, called Boss. Told they moved operations and I would have my new boat in 6 more months. I said F#$% that, I want a refund or I would sue them. They sent me a check (took a few calls). Then they called me and asked me to send them my old boat. I said come and get it...never heard from them again, and I don't think they ever made another stingray. I was pissed that Karel never responded, but what ever. I still love OC boats and currently have a China made Fuze...Seems very well made!
#18 Mon, 07/14/2008 - 6:58pm
I might not be so pissed if they had given us refunds. We had to ship the boats to Wenonah for repairs, took months to repair and the repair work sucked. Everything fell apart not too long after we got them back.
I sent a certified letter to Wenonah and Karel and never got any response from either. We got stuck with $3,000 boats that fell apart.
Like I said earlier, if they start having quality problems with the manufacturer out of China I hope Karel doesn't go mum again and customers get told those aren't really OC boats, they're just made for OC in China.... take it up with the Chinese manufacturer.
#19 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 1:51am
Doubtfull that a situation like the one you describe could happen again .
With more or less local dealers available nowadays to help out with customer relations .
Any problems with equipment would be taken care of much more efficiently at the local level.
As a dealer for OC I can say with certainty that if there`s a quality problem with a boat , OC will hear about it from me long before the customer gets the boat.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#20 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 3:15am
I agree with Fuzerider that this probably would not happen today.
It is not the contracted builder ,be it in China or a mainland builder that fault lies with - it lies with the Company, the owner of the molds to take responibility for it.
Outrigger Connectuion must have known that the seams were coming apart because the builder were not following Karels instructions.
As a result there are many stingray OC-1 owners that have been sold flawed canoes with little to no communication or recourse from the contracted builder ( Current designs) or the company ( OC) - And then Current Designs was bought out by Wenonah Canoe. So then nothing happened to address these canoes.
In a way this was very unfortunate event for everyone
( especially the purchaser) These players are huge manufacturers in the kayak market - it was a chance to get Outriggers into this extensive kayak market. But it went sideways, and now very few kayak dealers touch outriggers.
#21 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 6:13am
Too bad, so sad for us. I don't know about anyone else but it hurts to watch your $3K get flushed down the toilet.
Lots of explanations on this blog about what went wrong but still no compensation for the buyers.
#22 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 6:24am
to tell you the truth i punched through a wave and with my light layup it never had a chance...my fault totally...i can not speak for others but the service for me was above normal.
#23 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 7:10am
Frosso ,
Since last time we talked about your boat issues I
ve learned to repair canoes like its done at OC . Ive worked with Milan Tresnak in Hawaii and he was a great composite repair teacher.ll do what I can to get this resolved.If you can get the boats to me , I
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#24 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 7:39am
How big was the wave and where were you in relation to the impact zone. Also, what surf area? I'm assuming Waikiki area?
#25 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 8:00am
Only if Karel pays you for your time to repair the boat. ;-)
Seriously, if you are coming to Kent Island I'll bring the two boats. You may be able to fix the seams but I think the ama delamination will be a constant issue and the soft spots in the hull are problematic as well. There are at least three other stingrays in this area that suffer from OC/Current Design issues.
#26 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 3:12pm
Speaking of Outrigger Connection, anyone notice their website got hacked? Been like that since yesterday evening.
http://www.outriggerconnection.com/
#27 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 11:59pm
Fuze - Im in Hawaii so it doesnt really affect me, but thats huge that you would help someone like that with probably zero reimbursment and all that on canoes that you probably didnt sell or rep. Way to go man. I havent had any problems with my Hawaiian made Zephyr but if I do I hope your service is what I get here and im sure I would. Anyway, big kudos to you from a small time paddler in Kona.
#28 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 1:42am
jpi92109,
Thanks for those kind words. I`m kind of caught in the crossfire of a dispute .I have nothing to do with yet it affects my business and I want it resolved RIGHT NOW. If I fix the boats , everyone should be happy again and we can get back to being happy paddlers.... :)
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#29 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 2:31am
Wow, the website is a total mess...
#30 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 6:16am
frosso......you wouldnt happen to be a "computer expert" would you?
#31 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 7:38am
I doubt frosso would take his frustrations out on OC like that...
#32 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 7:41am
I manage construction so that means I can barely read. OK, that might be an exageration, I'm an engineer so I can barely spell but I'm not a computer engineer so I wouldn't know where to begin to hack a site.
I fuss and whine and complain but I wouldn't harm. I have a alligator mouth with a mosquito behind.
#33 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 10:31am
Frosso
That was really bad what happened to you and others.
OC should have put things right at their end.
good on you for constantly reminding all new paddlers of such treatment.
It is sad that a dealer that had nothing to do with the original mistake, has to take up the slack when OC is thriving and playing dumb.
Where is the Mana with this company?
My heart goes out to you frosso, you were ripped off big time.
Outrigger connection, you suck!
#34 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 9:54pm
Not so ocpaddler , you need to study up a little better on the facts before making wild and royally flawed remarks like that .
Current Designs was instructed on how to properly build canoes and then deviated from those precise instructions , causing problems with the boats.
Then they just disappear totally from the outrigger business leaving OC holding the bag.
Bad on you for spreading falsehoods.
Neither me nor most paddlers hold OC accountable for the shortcomings of Current Designs.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#35 Thu, 07/17/2008 - 2:55am
I agree with Fuzerider. My Current Design experience sucked...but I am on my 3rd OC designed boat, and I think they are great.
#36 Thu, 07/17/2008 - 4:29am
Although the mistake was Current Designs, if OC was putting their name on it, they should stand behind it at least to some degree. They were profitting from the sale of the canoes. Their new canoes may be fine, but that doesn't remove the responseability for customer service to all their customers.
#37 Thu, 07/17/2008 - 8:30am
Ive got nothing against OC but if they contract someone to build for them they are responsible for that product. Had they merely sold the rights and the canoes said "Current Designs" instead of "Outrigger Connection" on them it wouldnt be OC's responsibility, but as jibofo stated..........
still I think hacking into thier website was a bit much:-)
#38 Thu, 07/17/2008 - 10:43am
Get off your high horse Fuzerider, your one eyed and totally OC obsessed.
That is our fellow paddler that is the victim and not your precious OC.
If OC was that great they would have taken some action. They didn't!
OC gave the cowboy outfit a licence to peddle their product.
Don't tell me OC gifted this cowboy crowd, the right to make lots of dollars making OC boats, without some financial agreement.
Good people had faith in the OC name and invested good money for a good product. They got burnt. OC did not stand behind their product/Name.
There are paddlers out ther with faulty boats that OC should take steps to correct.
They don't.
They will not even commit to dialouge. How rude is that.
Do you understand what Mana is?
Falsehood my foot! Get Real!
#39 Thu, 07/17/2008 - 8:28pm
.
#40 Fri, 03/02/2012 - 9:28am
ocpaddler,
Just because I like to paddle fast canoes that go well in a wide variety of conditions , have a wide paddler weight range, are chine equiped for blistering speed when the oceans
moving fast, have a super comfortable ,deep cockpit for extra paddler comfort during those long races , pearle resistant front end, an ama thats built to enhance performance and not simply be a stabilizer float, dosent mean Im OC obsessed .It means I know what makes a good canoe a good canoe .
If you try one , you
ll know what Im talking about.http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#41 Fri, 07/18/2008 - 1:32am
"It means I know what makes a good canoe a good canoe ."
"If you try one , youll know what Im talking about."
I think frosso has a couple for sale. Any takers?
#42 Fri, 07/18/2008 - 1:11pm
OK here's a point of view from someone not connected to this issue. It doesn't matter who is "suppose to" do what. In fact I don't think there is a "suppose to" in this case. But if I am Outrigger Connection and my boats are out there I'd damn well make sure that they are damn well built regardless of who I am contracting out to. If word gets out there are some bad apples business is f'ed. Look at HYPR.
If OC is contracting out to Current Designs then its OCs job to make sure that they are built properly. Do you think Toyota would tolerate poorly made cars built here in the USA??
Fuzerider, very upstanding of you to offer help, but you are also blinded by your point of view.
#43 Fri, 07/18/2008 - 1:39pm
fuzer... on a complete unrelated point, why does your posts have different size fonts? is that intentional, or something funky.. your posts are the only one that does that... always wondered that.. ok, ding ding, back to the body blows.
#44 Fri, 07/18/2008 - 6:23pm
Must be the chine effect.
#45 Fri, 07/18/2008 - 10:56pm
it looks like th' text between th' apostrophes in fuzie`s posts alter his font or somethin'. i always jus' assumed 't be somethin' he be doin' wrong till ye pointed 't ou' dacho.
ARRR, aft t' th' beef.
#46 Fri, 07/18/2008 - 11:50pm
Must only happen in Internet Explorer, Firefox all the text looks the same to me.
Maybe ye take the eye patch off jc9_0, ye might see better.
Rambo
#47 Sat, 07/19/2008 - 3:21am
I think jc9 0 has i figured out , it the apostrophes that change the font,
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#48 Mon, 07/21/2008 - 2:34am
OK, enough about the fonts already... please continue with the good stuff.
#49 Mon, 07/21/2008 - 9:49am
poops is right
#50 Mon, 07/21/2008 - 11:12am
Have Fun...Kicbacmaui!
Thanks for the unexpected laugh, goto!(hope I got my punctuation right!)
#51 Mon, 07/21/2008 - 5:44pm