Opinions: OC 1Performance Survey - Pueo

Please see the graphic for Pueo performance on my blog ( click link below).

Two things come to mind:

  • customer satisfaction and loyalty
  • must be a good boat that meets requirements

To those who paddled that boat already - can you give a short comment on why you think that the boat is so good ( see the rating ) ? I think that it would help to interpret the numbers.

Submitted by eckhart on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 8:58am



I usually paddle a Kaimana but I borrowed Danny's Pueo the other day and went out and paddled in some flatwater. then went out in the ocean paddled upwind and then back downwind. The boat is amazing in every ciricumstance. It carries the glide incredibly well in the flat. It turns on a dime with the new ama. It picks up every bump downwind and it glides over the upwind bumps without rocking around and flexing.


#1 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 9:39am


I had my new Pueo out only twice and didn't really want to comment yet. The first time was in flat conditions and more of a get acquainted ride. All I can compare it to is my Kaimana which I love, even though I didn't rate it that high in the survey. It was built in Costa Mesa and had issues.
Last night we had 2-4.5 feet conditions, all very choppy not really clean. Our usual run is flat through the basin for 2 miles to the break water and then uphill straight out to some pins left over from the LA Olympics maybe 2-3 miles distance and return.
I'm not surprised by the survey numbers for the Pueo. The flat water performance was unexpected but distinctly fast. Through the chop and back wash at the break wall it stayed nice and stable,and where the Kaimana plods a little with a lot of up and down slamming, the Pueo slices right through and loses less glide. I attribute that to the forward cockpit and the higher gunwhales. The cockpit flares out above the water line which provides more buoyancy when you get sucked into the trough either up or down wind. It's of course stiffer like all new boats. Super sensitive steering which I like. Turns on a dime. It has a different trigger point when catching bumps, again forward cockpit. Once on the bump it runs like hell and easily connects. Ama is super quiet and looks like the hull of a german World War I naval destroyer. Ama slices in and out without plowing when leaning left. The seat feels like you are glued to it. A little shaving for my hip bones and I'm good.
Way more sophisticated then my Kaimana. It feels like I have to bring up my game to really utilize the Pueo/Porsche. You have to be precise to appreciate it's possibilities.
My Kaimana will still stay in the stable.


#2 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 11:38am


good reviews on th' pueo, i will go so far as t' say "i like 't"

jus' make sure ye be havin' th' ama rigged correct if ye borrow/demo one. 't makes a world o' difference whether ye be havin' 't rigged level. when i tried 't an' be rigged too much t' th' port, 't felt funky. once th' boat be more level. 't flew. guess th' boat name makes sense.


#3 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 11:53am


My Kaimana excels in all stuff big and small and to be honest with everyone my speed in the flats, sprints and average over many miles is right there with my Pegasus on the Kaimana. The Kaimana is a better boat when it gets bigger for sure.

That would explain why the new Pueo is getting high ratings across the board in the flat and surf given its evolved from the Kaimana to Kainalu transitions and is the next gen of these boats. The new Ama and its profile should as people have noted make for cutting through the water pretty clean up and downwind.

Wish I could find one up here to demo...


#4 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 1:54pm


I was chasing(of course) a guy on a Pueo recently and the new ama looks to run the same as Kais ama but with no noise. A very impressive looking canoe. I refused the demo however. I dont want to want it!


#5 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 9:10pm


pueo sounds so great, too bad I am too heavy. Ugh. It is strange to me how kaimana composits and Kai Waa take it real slow in posting info about their canoes, details about dimensions etc. Almost nothing about the scorpius though the finish of the 08 Rino Molo was a parade of them and they seemed to be the most common canoe on the water. Those Makana Alii paddles seemed to be in a lot of hands too, must be great stuff.


#6 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 9:51pm


They dont because they dont have to. They are busy building canoes and they sell as fast as they make them so no need to do things like that. Sucks but thats just the way it is.


#7 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 10:00pm


KAMANU composites, Shawn


#8 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 10:41pm


Sorry, got it. K-A-M-A-N-U

2 year plus waiting list for a Hawaiian scorpius per Kai. Holy moly build another shop!


#9 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 10:56pm


He did, its in China.


#10 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 11:02pm


The Chinese scorpius were supposed to be in last month for Calif but now they say spring 09. No instant gratification. I would rather support Hawaiian economy.


#11 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 11:26pm


Yeah thats tough. I dont know how much it would cost to ship you a used Scorpius maybe? There have been a few for sale here, and there will be more.


#12 Thu, 09/11/2008 - 11:59pm


The Puey is a sweet looking canoe , very Fuzelike in overall appearance . Now, with its` new ama performance may well be Fuzelike as well.

I`d like to get one here to test against Fuze performance.

http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/


#13 Fri, 09/12/2008 - 1:33am


Confuzie, ye ortin' ta jus' order a Pueo, do all yer testin', then sell 't used. I be sure ye could get pretty much what ye pay fer 't. Whatereyou dasn't make aft ye can write off as a business expense.


#14 Fri, 09/12/2008 - 6:58am


fuzerider -

the Pueo versus Fuze chart has been posted on my blog. http://www.oc1design.blogspot.com

I am not sure about the displacement volume of either boat - they may target different weight paddlers ?

I actually do believe that chines have a function and lead to improved performance in certain conditions.
There are some publications on the net that comment on that. Maybe we should gather it for a short write up to add some fuel to the discussion. :)


#15 Fri, 09/12/2008 - 8:40am


Good idea , eckhart, I always like to talk boats , especially chine equiped boats . Most of the mafia here think Im a chine nut but Im sticking to my guns because they work really well when the oceans moving fast.

I have one of those Legends on order , can`t wait to step on the gas on a ski with those chines.....

The Puey and Fuze really do look alot alike the volume is placed in a similar way on both boats , rocker looks similar , both boats have a super comfy cockpit.

It would be good to get some measurements of each to see how they actually compare.

It`s chineless too so that will be a plus for some , a minus for others .

I was hoping to get a ride on the one Keizo brought to Sacramento but as you know it got busted in shipment.


#16 Fri, 09/12/2008 - 12:36pm


fuzerider:

OutriggerCanoe Design
http://www.oc1design.blogspot.com - see OC 1 Comparison Chart for specs;


#17 Fri, 09/12/2008 - 3:37pm


The Pueo and Fuze are as alike as my left foot is to my ear. I had my Kaimana and Fuze side by side with pics and the hulls don't even come close.

Sorry been there had a Fuze...said bye bye real fast to that ride. Did not live up to the Hype. My 3 year old Kaimana kicked my Fuze in all conditions (same engine here). My wife also did not go as fast in the Fuze sprints or distance, no way she was trading the Kaimana to race in the Fuze. Had to beg, bribe and pry the Kaimana from her to get off my Fuze.

Bought a Pegasus which I really like and believe me the Kaimana is as fast as the Pegasus in the flat and small stuff and its faster in the medium to large stuff than both the Pegasus and Fuze for us both.

The Pueo is an evolution from Kaimana to Kainalu. The hull from what I have been told by people who own it is round like the Kaimana/Kainalu and narrower beam around 14inch at the seat/deck. Johnny lowered the cockpit and moved it forward and changed the seat/cockpit and now added a new Ama. I hear as others have commented that the boat is just great in everything.


#18 Fri, 09/12/2008 - 4:37pm


The Pueo and Fuze are as alike as my left foot is to my ear. I had my Kaimana and Fuze side by side with pics and the hulls don’t even come close."

What does this mean Pittbrah?


#19 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 12:42am


It took Fuze quite a while to spell Pueo right.


#20 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 6:11am


Hey Fuzerider what I mean is the hulls are entirely different, from the entry line to how the width runs across the length of the hull to the hull depth and shallowness at different points.

The Kaimana and Pueo hulls are very round and the height of the hull or depth of the hull roundness at diferent points along the length of the hull is way different than the Fuze's hull shape even if the Fuze was not chined they would be considerably different. I measured widths/depths across different points of both boats at different hull points and the Fuze is still wider and flatter across its hull length.

To say they are alike is a generalization and does not lead to any valid comparison of the two boats.

Looking at pics you may think lines look similar but that is not the case and that is why they feel entirely different in the water when paddled. Even the hull shape of the Pegasus is round but has some flatter shallower spots than the Kaimana and Pueo and the bow widens earlier from the waterline entry.

Same with the decks, the Pueo deck is basically a lowered profile deck from the Kaimana, the seat is lowered, cockpit moved forward seat dropped in. The one thing that looks similar is this new seat which is a borrow on the Wai Nui/Fuze/Fusion style of seat and having owned a Fuze I can definitely say its the most comfortable ride I have paddled. The new Pueo Ama designed by Johnny is kind of like the low profile Wai Nui OC1 Ama from Maui.....wish we had some of his boats here on the mainland to paddle because his boat looks pretty sweet.


#21 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 6:45am


What it means is that Pittbrah better go into the witness protection program because the East Coast's militant wing of the OCP Mafia will be after him. You should know OC Paddler's 11th Commandment by know:

Thou shalt never criticize an Outrigger Connection boat


#22 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 7:30am


Oh yeah forgot about that Kimo.....time to go into hiding here in the Tundra. I though the OCP Mafia was boat 'neutral' ;-)

In all seriousness OCs boats are built solid and the workmanship and comfort of my Fuze was totally awesome. However I bought it expecting it to perform better than it did for me in the conditions we paddle most here in the North East. It can be tough getting enough demo time on new boats out here as they take quite some time to land here.

I think its great that Fuzerider is pimping his rides, its great for the sport and the more people on OCs the better, but take that enthusiasm and marketing with a dose of reality and test out the claims for yourself.

This aint Hawaii....unfortunately. If it was I would be looking at a Pueo, Zephyr or Scorpius rather than a Fuze.


#23 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 7:55am


Disclaimer: goto is the Pacific NW Kamanu Composites rep, and although he does not have a Pueo of his very own, (yet!) he has paddled many a Pueo, many a time. Also, he is very honest and trustworthy... when it comes to one-mans.

First of all, I just wanted to make a slight correction, and give some props where props are due. The Pueo ama was designed by Keizo Gates. Johnny P, Luke and Kelly all had their input factored in as well, but what you see in the pics, and on the boats is really Keizo's badass design. I like to borrow a line from Mael Carey who said that it looks just like a Tahitian six-man, shrunk down to ama size.

I won't make boat comparisons or recommendations, but I will relay to you the facts as they relate to the Pueo's upwind and/or flat-water performance: I raced against Jr. at the Gorge race in Washington this year. I was in a Pueo, and he was in a Zephyr. In the first leg, (upwind) I stayed ahead of him. When we turned the corner and went downwind, he passed me. I think that when we were going upwind, I was ahead because of the Pueo. When we turned downwind, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered which boat either of us were in, the writing was already on the wall...

So there you have it. In my experience, the thing frickin' MOTORS upwind.


#24 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 8:08am


...also, fuzerider is not in the OCP Mafia.


#25 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 8:09am


But didn't a Hurricane pass you & JR/Zephyr motor more on the 2ndlap up&downwind?


#26 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 8:59am


Yeah, that Hurricane was MOVING - but I like to attribute that to the motor that was driving it. And I'm pretty sure that he never passed Jr./Zephyr. Plus, that guy's a Sr. Master or something, so it hardly even counts.


#27 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 9:06am


Oh snap. That must have been some weird rip in the space-time continuum. Everyone knows that since the Foti bros don't hype their boats on here that the Hurricane must be junk.


#28 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 9:09am


ahead on the 1stlap because of the (canoe)Pueo but passed on the 2ndlap cuz of the motor driving it? ?? did the Pueo get u n e closer to JR/Zephyr on the 2ndupwidn leg?


#29 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 9:18am


Oh yeah, baby! I was 6 ft. 4 in. closer to Jr. at the END of the 2nd upwind leg, than I was at the START of the 2nd upwind leg. And then he mopped the floor with me AGAIN on the 2nd DOWNWIND leg.


#30 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 9:43am


The guy that passed Goto is an awesome paddler, Laci Budjos, who paddles w/ Jericho from Canada and also Cali Mstrs., I believe. That was Goto's 1st time ever on the Pueo, and he hulied. I guess I just broke the rule of not making excuses, but for anyone who's wondering what happened, that's what happened. Also, I tried to sabotage Jr. by drinking 11, 000 beers w/ him after the six-man race the day before, but that didn't work. While we were getting hammered, like real paddlers do after a race, Goto was having chicken soup and going nite-nite at like 6:30 or something. That didn't work either.


#31 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 11:23am


Well said Goto regarding the props where props are due.... was thinking exactly what you said, but refrained from saying anything for obvious reasons. I'll probably still get a scolding! I may be 3000 miles away, and have yet to see a Pueo, let alone the badass ama, but when I saw all the ama pics, I had the biggest, proudest smile ever. Even before Keizo spent 4 years in NY getting an aerospace degree, we were discussing how OC1 ama design took a wrong turn years ago. Absolutely awesome to hear the positive reviews!

While I am here ( I don't ever post, though I am the second ever registered member here!), I just want to say that living here aboard my 37' trimaran (I have two amas!) in Tonga, I still read the forum regularly, and thoroughly enjoy the lively, informative, and sometimes hilarious threads..... thank you!. BTW Keizo, when are we going to design the ultimate performance/cruising trimaran!???


#32 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 4:17pm


whoa this be now a hallowed poop deck. th' ORIGINAL Mr. Gates!


#33 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 5:54pm


I really like the look of the new boat and all but you know we are never going to hear the end of it on this site.


#34 Sat, 09/13/2008 - 6:12pm


If we hear the end of it , might as well turn the website off.

Just wait till cabin fever season sets in here on the frozen coast of Maine .

I`m most likely going to loose it and rave on about chines all winter like I did last year.

Puey `s nice but Fuze rules ......


#35 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 7:23am


Queria apenas dizer, que não sou realmente bom o suficiente para bater o contra o vento Jr. Mas, na condição de o Pueo senti muito bom para mim, e ajudou-me com um bom resultado.


#36 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 10:50am


tis a pueo, thar be nay "y" in hawaiian. do nay attempt t' belittle yer competition by usin' pet names, unless ye be willin' t' rename th' OC boat ye peddle th' fuzzy.


#37 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 10:50am


Looks like Goto just got his first shipment of Pueo(s). They're just beautiful boats. Good job Kamanu guys, nice ama Keizo. Look for the other manufacturers to imitate that one soon. Looks like Keizo didn't get all that book larnin' fer nuthin'!


#38 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 12:15pm


Anyone have any good pics of Puey?


#39 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 12:27pm


Yes

Any photos of this boat for us to look at and drool in envy of all those that own one?

Are they available for a test drive yet? Who do I have to sleep with to get a test drive?


#40 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 1:19pm


Yeah some higher resolution pics of the boat and Ama from a few angles would be nice.

Luke, Kelly, Keizo stop the insanity guys put up some shotz ;-)

Mahalo Pittbrah


#41 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 1:35pm


A video, wpecs as far as known and opinions about the Pueo are on this blog:

OutriggerCanoe Design
http://www.oc1design.blogspot.com

As far as I know, this is the only information of the Pueo available on the net.


#42 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 8:27pm


Video here with the old ama

http://oc1design.blogspot.com/search/label/OC%201%20Video

Some pics on this thread

http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/3971


#43 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 9:50pm


I added one of the pictures with the new ama to the blog in the section OC 1 Opinion Reviews.


#44 Sun, 09/14/2008 - 11:35pm


Since Puey is a very new boat and it`s new ama even newer , did the people who bought early boats get an ama upgrade or are they stuck with the other ama?


#45 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 2:42am


Again it is spelled P.U.E.O. and it is not an upgrade but a choice.


#46 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 7:00am


just t' clarify, ever' Pueo comes wi' a Pueo ama. all o' them.


#47 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 7:12am


Painteur and Jc90,

I will speak to you and hope someone else on this thread gets it.

You are right and I thank you for pointing out that the word Pueo represents a very sacred Hawaiian word and concept, for in Hawaii it is an 'aumakua (a family diety and ancestral God) that depicts protection, wisdom and intelligence, and since paddling is still very much a cultural sport although changing rapidly-it is important to not dishonor someones culture.

Pueo, The Protector
by Veronica S. Schweitzer

Pueo is sacred. The Hawaiian dictionary lists several meanings and connotations for the word itself: When a certain object or concept is considered important, more layers of meaning are contributed, each level unraveling deeper and deeper symbolic significance. Pueo doesn't signify only an owl, but also denotes a taro variety, the staff of life. In addition it indicates, among other meanings, shortness, the shroud of a canoe, and the rocking of a child. Then there are the many expressions that use the word pueo, such as keiki a ka pueo, "child of an owl, whose father is not known", or, ka pueo kani kaua, "the owl who sings of war, the owl as a protector in battle". A no lani, a no honua, another saying states, "the guardian owl belongs to heaven and earth". Throughout Hawaii, streets, areas, and valleys bear the owl's name, with many such places having an intriguing legend attached to them. Pueo's legacy reaches far beyond brown feathers into the realm of the spirit world.

If I knew something I was saying or doing was offensive to Tahitians, then I would stop and offer apologies for my ignorance.


#48 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 7:16am


yar th' man Kona J.


#49 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 7:18am


Puey is to Pueo as Peggy is to Pegasus ,

No offense intended...


#50 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 8:25am


as is fuzzy to fuze...


#51 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 1:55pm


jpi92109 said"I really like the look of the new boat and all but you know we are never going to hear the end of it on this site."

I have to disagree with that comment. Since starting Kamanu Luke, Keizo and Kelly have made a conscious effort not to use ocpaddler as a voice for Kamanu. They want to keep ocpaddler an open forum and realize that they could easily damage that by using it for their own gains. I am not sure if Keizo pays himself for the ad space though. Keep up the good work at Kamanu and here at ocpaddler.


#52 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 2:56pm


There is no doubt in my mind that none of those 3 guys will ever do anything of the sort, thats why I didnt name them. But like Fuze to OC there are others that will scream Pueo til they make another canoe.


#53 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 7:51pm


I'll only whisper it from now on...

...pueo.


#54 Mon, 09/15/2008 - 7:55pm


jpi92109, your above remark is one of those rare absolute truths posted here on OC Paddler. My hats ` off to you...

I have no intention of "whispering " about OC canoes.

Results speak for themselves and OC canoes get results.

You`ll never see Karel or Karel Jr. posting anything about thier canoes on this site either , those guys are totally silent on the issue , as they should be.


#55 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 1:26am


Be honest Fuze. You mean "result" singular. Jr. is the only guy on earth that can make those pigs go fast.


#56 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 2:36am


I go fast on em too, at least for an "old" guy.

OC boats hold many course records here on the flater waters of the east coast .

I`ll grant you that Jr, holds the big one , being the Blackburn record .
The women here do very well on Fuzes too mostly due to my recruitng good motors to ride them .
To be honest though , the girls I coach here would kick butt on any boat. They are dedicated paddlers and like to train to win.

The motor matters most no matter what boat your on.

If its true that OC has few wins on thier boats other than Jr.
I would think that
s more due to a lack of team riders than the boats being slow.
We`ll see what happens in the future, if Manny continues to ride OC boats, then he and Jr. will make those boats look mighty good next one man season.

If you want to sell boats you need to market them , I don`t think OC exerts alot of energy in the area of marketing .

Epic on the other hand is excellent at it and I would guess thier sales reflect thier efforts.


#57 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 3:57am


I didnt mean any disrespect by what I said and didnt mean it in a bad way really, just stating the obvious I guess. You do see some guys "tune" sounding a little different now that Kamanu has the newest, badest boat around. And no, im not referring to Keizo, Luke, or Kelly.


#58 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 5:05am


At the end of the day having owned multiple rides discussed on the forum regularly, I can only tell you what works best for me as a paddler and give that feedback honestly without any 'business driven' bias. Every paddler needs to make up their own mind as to what is fast for them. In Toronto we don't have a single guy in the top five at OC-1 races here in an Outrigger Connection. Though a good number have been sold here. Top guys are in Pegasus's, Kaimana, Pahoa and Hurricanes currently.

Where I paddle there is a pretty competitive field of OC paddlers with some post Olympic and National level paddlers that are very fast - i.e. one that was 10 mins ahead of Fuzerider at Blackburn this year and won the event - Yes motor generally drives the boat. But put that same motor in a faster boat and they will go faster....it's that comparison that counts and matters the most.

What Fuzerider claims as 'OC boats hold many course records in the East Coast'. That is a great generalization and may be true for specific races and dates/years; don't know specifically what events and dates he is talking about but many of the Ecora events do not always have the same or top paddlers there given the amount of travel between events for paddlers all over Ecora.

Its just as true to say that Hurricanes and Pegasus's (now which have gotten to East Coast riders in the last 2 yrs) hold records as well so what is the point?


#59 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 5:52am


The same is true here in the Pacific Northwest.


#60 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 6:11am


Who da hell is fuse rider? Does he sit on a fuse? Will it blow when the fuse reaches the firecracker? Lick your fingers and extinguish that fuse before it blows up your okole!! oh!!! F.U.Z.E. rider...mah badd
Enough shameless marketing..


#61 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 6:27am


When I was a kid, I had a Honda XR-70 motorcycle. I used to kick everyone's ass on that thing. Until some other kid bought a Yamana YZ-80. Then I came is second all the time.

Point is...motorcycles were cool in the early 80s. Other point is: "good" is relative. It's only good if its better than the other thing out there at the ame time and place as you. Actually that's not really a good point after all. nevermind.


#62 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 6:53am


e02060, by doin' a terrible job o' makin' a point, ye actually made a great point.

which be... ah crap i`m lost too now.


#63 Tue, 09/16/2008 - 7:16am


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