Molokai -2008-Thoughts/Rumors

Here we go again.

Na Wahine O Ke Kai-Women’s Molokai
Last year I posted-

"Team Bradley will be challenged by a very, very hungry Team Hui Lanakila and Waikiki Beach Boys. I am sure there are some other women’s teams in Hawaii who want to fly under the radar before Molokai but who are also looking for respect on race day. Also we have to consider an Australian, California, or Canadian All-Star Team showing up. I am not in the know, but others might know if they are coming or not."

It looks like things are shaping up the same way with a few differences.

Hui Lanakila has picked up different ladies and are using a Bradley-Lightening. Also I wonder if Team Bradley has been playing a little “Cat and Mouse” by taking it easy on prep races. We will see soon. It should be amazingly close and a great race.

Molokai Hoe-Men’s Molokai

Things are different this year. Tahiti (Shell, OPT, etc) have dominated the last two years and have left Hawaii more than a little shocked and shaken. Coaches across Hawaii started the change stroke rate talk, grabbed a single or double bend paddle, and upped training. We will see.

Lanikai has jumped to the challenge and has called all of the “family” to come back together. It will be interesting. Other crews in Hawaii are looking to step up too and prove they are also strong. PAA, Hawaiian, Kailua, Outrigger

LiveStrong Masters will be in the Masters mix. Australia will have to watch out.

Rumors-

I have heard a few and not totally confirmed but.

What type of canoe (New Mirage or Bradley-Lightening) will Lanikai choose for Molokai? Hmmm.

Submitted by Kona J on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 8:16am



james clapp,
no lippin, straight from the heart. being an x lanikai guy you should know we make decisions as a family not an individual. dosent matter though, first crew is still gonna rock, and our second crew has a world champ stearing our boat. cant wait till the 12th so we can put the talking to rest. by the way how big is your belt these days brother. ha ha ha just kiding.


#71 Sat, 09/27/2008 - 10:41am


JAYBIRD,

You say you saw cheating going on last year and you saw it with your own eyes?

What are you talkin about?

You can`t make an inflamatory remark like that here without some details filled in.

Who was "cheating " and how?


#72 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 2:00am


JAYBIRD
Fuzerider, are you qualified, certified???

There was cheating going on. The Tahitians (the winning crew) used (at least 10 paddlers) during the race. I'm not blind, if i had a camera you would not be blind either.


#73 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 6:42am


Usually after 3hrs. or so, even the top teams in the Hoe slow down a bit. I guess when guys like Georges Cronsteadt call for drug testing, the idea should at least be considered.


#74 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 6:50am


Well , I`d give the Tahitians the benefit of the doubt until all the evidence is on the table.

Hard for me to believe they would knowingly cheat in a canoe race.

If paddlings ` thier national sport , it would do them great dishonor to cheat.

For now , I don`t buy the cheating story...

That could change though once this all comes out..


#75 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 7:05am


anyone know if there is a feed, gps track, etc for the women's race?


#76 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 8:56am


Any news on the wahines? Still a little early, just seeing if anyone has checked in. The wind conditions look miserable.


#77 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 9:40am


Looks like a long hot day. Sitting on the beach at the Hilton I was baking at 8:30 this morning. Not a hint of a breeze.


#78 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 9:52am


JAYBIRD
UPDATE: 14 miles from Diamond Head, Team Bradley is a strong 1st, Hui Lanakila 2nd and the Beach Bunnies 3rd.


#79 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 10:21am


right on jaybird, keep em coming if you can!


#80 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 10:22am


NAC women from newport beach california are in 5th and i believe that outrigger is in 4th.


#81 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 11:34am


Prelim results
Bradley-record
Hui lanakila
Beach girls
OCC
NAC


#82 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 1:34pm


In Tahiti, the FTV has a very simple system to make sure noone will cheat : On each escort boat there is a paddler from a rival team. At the end of the race, this persons has to make a report to the officials before the results are validated.
So durind Hawaiki Nui for example, a Sheel paddler is on the OPT escoart boat, and an OPT paddler is on the Shell escort boat...
Don't you have something like this during the Molokai Hoe ? It would be very easy to arrange something like this. Someone from Lanikai on the Shell escort boat...


#83 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 12:52pm


I don't think Shell would be so willing to cooperate, in fact I heard that they has several escort boats and guys on Jet skis shooing away spectators who got too close. In Hawaii, the canoes are not normally surrounded by an armada of partisan escort boats and other craft. Also, most skippers take care to keep their distance and not interfere w/ the racing. I realize there's a whole different style in Tahiti but it would be nice if everyone could respect each other's way of racing, and conduct themselves in the local manner, wherever the race may be.


#84 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 1:23pm


Holy crap, if the ama's suppose to be the io then its badass! Still a friggin eye sore but baddass


#85 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 1:37pm


Thanks Dacho

Rambo


#86 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 1:45pm


That's great for Team Bradley, but I always like to root for the underdog-so I am a little bummed. It will be good to read about or see photos of how the race unfolded.


#87 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 2:16pm


Dacho, There is no need that they have the WILL to cooperate. Here in Tahiti, these are the race regulations. If you don't cooperate, then you are disqualified.
During every Tahitian V6 race, on the shell escort boat, there is an official race officer from another club (OPT, Pirae, Paddling Connection, ect.). If that guy is not on the boat, they cannot race. With this simple system, there is no cheating possible. Do you think a paddler from Lanikai, crossing the channel in the Shell escort boat, would keep his mouth shut if he could report some sort of cheating ?
At the same time, there would be someone from Shell, doing the same in Lanikai club escort boat.


#88 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 2:21pm


That OCC team was a Jr. Masters team , no?


#89 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 2:26pm


i'm late to the thread but i'll try and catch up going backward.

Fuze: yeah, young old ladies in that boat. not bad huh. one might even say those are some fast cougars. j/k
Hiro: Why would we put someone on Shell's boat to verify they are faster then us when it's so much fun to bitch about cheating. are you trying to break our spirits and our records?
Team Bradley: untouchable!
Tommy Conner: dido
Jaybird and FTW: entertaining but are there underlying anger problems here?

And the best part of the whole post...
lightning vs. new mirage? Both are great boats and one IS better then the other CONDITIONS DEPENDING. In the end it's just a boat, I'd like to see you catch that bump without a paddle. It must be the paddle that makes them faster then everyone else. look at the evidence. Tahiti uses their own all wood paddles, and lanikai has their own "lanikai" paddles.
hmmm!


#90 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 10:19pm


kj you got it right...


#91 Sun, 09/28/2008 - 11:03pm


Rambo/Jaws

Just back from Na Wahine. Congratulations to all crews!

My canoe was sold the week after the Liliu'okalani race so it wasn't in yesterdays race.

There were offers to race it, however.


#92 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 10:31am


SHELL VAA DOES NOT CHEAT. They don't have to.
Before the start of last years Molokai Hoe I was on the pier at Hale O Lono getting ready to shove off. Karyl Maoni came up to me to say hello. I paddled 3 years with Karyl and we finished first, first, and second in Molokai. I consider him to be a good friend as well as a world class paddler. He introduced me to 3 Shell paddlers who I did not know. Two of them and Karyl were the paddlers who were not in the starting crew. The other paddler was the 10th guy who did not make crew. They were dressed in identical team jerseys. On Shell Vaa's escort boat there were 2 helpers who were also wearing team jerseys.
If you were to count the number of people wearing the same shirts on the escort boat you might think that they had a 10 or 12 man crew. That was not the case. They raced with 9 paddlers. If you stop to think about it for minute, there is really no advantage to using more people. In Havaiki Nui Vaa all of the races are iron. These paddlers are used to going 2, 3, 4 hours without changes. Molokai is a 9 man race so teams add 3 more paddlers to the roster. Paddlers number 7, 8, and 9 are not as good as paddlers 1 to 6. Every club is like this. Paddlers are ranked from number 1 to number 20. Number 1 to 9 are on the 1st crew. Number 10 to number 18 are on the second crew, etc. etc. etc. Teams are not going to go any faster by using additional paddlers who are physically inferior to the top 6 or 9.
Additional paddlers actually slow you down because you have to make more changes and develop more strokers and seat combinations. My personal experience in many Molokai races is that adding more paddlers to the crew would not be helpful. In fact there were some races were I felt we would have been better with 8 instead of 9.


#93 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 1:17pm


I`ll buy that story.


#94 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 2:42pm


Doesn't seem much like a 'story' to be bought! Just the God's honest truth spoken by one who has the experience. Thanks for laying it down , Mr. Conner!


#95 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 4:20pm


Tommy Connors...nuff said. You the man. As far as personnel goes, you abosolutely right, no way Tahiti cheated. Until everyone out there can go witness Hawaiiki Nui and understand the grueling nature of that race, there is no way the Tahitians would be cheating for Molokai Hoe. Molokai Hoe for them is a cake walk, just a nice little workout for them. Consider that Hawaiiki Nui is about the equivalent of 3 straight marathons on consecutive days, the hoe is 'duck soup.' So, they no need more than 9 guys.

The cheating concern for me is if these guys using Roids. That is the question for me. Not so much using more than 9 paddlers, but are these guys juiced?? I think that is the question we should be answering. I heard lots of rumors, starting a couple years ago. But until that winner of the Super Aito started calling out these guys, I just took it as being rumors. Now, I not to sure about that.

Hey Billy R....good news that you sold one of your boats. Hope whomever bought it, puts it on the line.

Jaws Out.


#96 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 4:25pm


What type of performance enhancing drugs would help paddling? Roids? Wouldn't that just make you bigger, and thus, slower? What do the cyclists take? EPO, testosterone, HGH? Maybe a little amphetamine after that 2nd or 3rd hr.? Who knows?


#97 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 6:29pm


to answer your question jim, we are talking about coffee and chocolate chip cookies (with no nuts of course).


#98 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 7:13pm


Since we're delving into this discussing of rumors and speculation, in all fairness, I think it would be fair to turn the question around to any paddler or team, winner or not, whether he/she is doping or taking any performance enhancing substance(s).

Until the sports governing body of canoe paddling decides to impose upon its participating athletes a comprehensive and random drug testing program, nothing of definitive evidence can come out of these types of rumors, and then I would caution presenting them in this type of forum as they cause unnecessary insult and cause injury to a person(s) reputation as the rumor mill somehow transforms the information into false truths or at best, unsubstantiated accusations.

That's just my opinion, but for educational purposes, attached is a straight forward article on Blood Doping, the performance enhancing tool of choice for endurance athletes, written by the fine folks at USC engineering.


#99 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 8:03pm


USC?! no wonder their football team always wins. They're a bunch of cheaters. I even saw extra guys on the sideline wearing their uniforms.


#100 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 8:31pm


lol
actually the guys (USC) got it handed to them by the Oregon State Beavers. The same team that smashed UH. Pac-10s kinda weak this year. Oklahoma Sooners now the team to beat coz the Bulldogs of Georgia got spanked as well.

Amazing games.


#101 Mon, 09/29/2008 - 9:26pm


Kamamakakua, In reading the attached article DopingInSports.pdf 95.63 KB
, it mentions the bad that comes from lactic acid production in the muscles. I have read a little about the "benefits" of lactic acid training, but don't really get it. does anybody have any insight to this type of training?


#102 Tue, 09/30/2008 - 9:04am


C'mon, kamamakakaua, you know the Trojans will be there at the end! Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, Alabama will all lose at least one game. Fight On!


#103 Tue, 09/30/2008 - 10:53am


NO football on this site!!! Jeez! Strickly paddling sports ONLY!!! he he he


#104 Tue, 09/30/2008 - 11:27am


The BCS always plays out kinda unpredictably but based on the rest of their schedule and how the Pac-10 plays out as a whole, and it would take a complete melt down of the SEC, Big 12 and other stronger conference, I would have to say the Rose Bowl is their best bet. I just don't see it with the huge drop in poll position. There are so many other good teams. I'm hoping for BYU or Penn State.
And Lanikai and Team Pa'a in the Moloka'i Hoe! =D


#105 Tue, 09/30/2008 - 11:39am


I'm with you Kama!!! Go Cougars!!!


#106 Tue, 09/30/2008 - 11:52am


JAYBIRD
Sometimes the truth hurts!!!

There used to be officials on all top 20 crews, it got cost prohibitive. Would like to see it again, I'd pay to be on a Tahitian escort.

Jim: you are right, there was an army of boats, jet-skis keeping gawkers away. No cooperation or consideration. WHY??

KJ: no underlying anger here. Does the truth hurt you? Make you angry?

Mr. Connor: We all know of your association with Tahiti, you also are a "world class" steersman/paddler. Now Head Coach.
Good Luck with the "paddle-tics" in Lanikai.
I'm sure it was Kai who said "I came here to win Moloka'i, not sell canoes". Sorry if that was a misquote Kai.

Kala Kukea was also, my "world class man". Loyal to Hui Nalu and HCKT, eager and willing to "pass it on" and help any who asked, a very humble man and true to his roots.

I stand by what I saw and I wasn't alone. Nuff said.


#107 Tue, 09/30/2008 - 4:44pm


In light of the countdown to next Sunday, anybody want to predict top five with conditions 15-20 mph out of the east?


#108 Wed, 10/01/2008 - 9:30pm


JAYBIRD
Sometimes the truth hurts!!!

are you talking to yourself?


#109 Wed, 10/01/2008 - 9:52pm


Can anyone confirm this: I heard that paddlers in the top Tahitian crews smoke cigarettes right before and during the race. Like up until the starting line and peeling it just before the start.


#110 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 6:59am


JAYBIRD
No Keizo. I wasn't looking in the mirror, or talking to myself.

Obviously there are a lot of people who can't handle what i said. No backing off here, I stand by what i saw.


#111 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 7:09am


Shell Va'a
Lanikai
OPT
Outrigger
Lanakila California (that's right, I said it... should be an all-star so cal crew with many hoes under their belts : ) )


#112 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 7:12am


keizo, i think JAYBIRD is doing the ol' forget to erase your signature trick. but it did look kinda like he was ripping himself.


#113 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 8:17am


no lanakila... it's team quicksilver


#114 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 8:20am


JAYBIRD, you seem like an awesome dude and all, but here's the top three rules on OCPaddler.com:

1) You do not talk about OCPaddler.com.
2) You DO NOT talk about OCPaddler.com!
3) When Keizo scolds you, you just stay quiet and take it.
4) No puking.


#115 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 8:40am


Oh, sorry. #4 is from something different...


#116 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 8:40am


I wasn't meaning to scold, I was more or less just being mean. Can't I still get in on the fun sometimes? Sorry Jaybird, but that's good you stand by your position so strongly. You should go into politics.

aaha, I'm getting sucked into the black hole of ocp. I will stop posting now.

Next Sunday will be interesting.


#117 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 9:45am


Keizo, mean and scolding? Not possible...


#118 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 9:48am


or is it team quicksilver lanakila dacho? Have they registered under team quicksilver?


#119 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 6:52pm


Shell Va'a
OPT A
Lanikai
OPT B / Venus Va'a


#120 Thu, 10/02/2008 - 8:36pm


Hiro, Shell Va'a is a guaranted to beat OPT??? ARE THEY WAY BETTER?


#121 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 12:23am


Keizo,

Come on , get back in here and start posting some more . You used to post all the time .
It will be good for you to get pummeled once in a while .


#122 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 1:05am


I agree w/ truckstop's top 5 except Kailua and Lanikai's 2nd crew will be ahead of OCC. Mana, cigarette smoking before the race? Sounds crazy, but smoking seems to be an integral part of French culture. I heard the great Eddie Merckx, Belgian winner of multiple tour(s) de France, smoked right up until race time. I know he's not French, but close enough, eh?


#123 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 3:49am


Jeeez, does it really matter if they smoke of not right before the race?!
So if you're not smoker, and you know that Shell Va'a smoke cigarettes right before the race, would you start smoking 'cause they go fast?!
Spend more time in the water (I mean training) and be YOUR best!
As far as I know, they don't smoke.

And yeah, I think it will be a great race!!! I wish I could watch it all. Shell might be the favorite, and it is the crew I would bet on. But I know Kai, and I know he can do some damage! He's an animal, just like his wife..... Hope Lanikai will give them a race, if not beat them.... Who knows???!!!!
I would love to watch it!

Good race to you all!
And give it all you got, race with your heart, like you want it..... be your best!


#124 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 8:50am


I hope the wind stays up. Windguru.com only posts a week in advance but next fridays reports are saying 19-22 mph and thats a slight pick up from earlier in the week.

If its BIG I still think that Shell and OPT are going to be strong, really strong. What they might lack in big wave surfing knowledge (they have big waves in Tahiti but Hawaiians do it more) they make up for in their sheer fitness level. You need to remember that half of surfing is being able to catch the wave. The second is being able to stay on the wave. The top teams there are fit enough to just be able to paddle themselves in and stay on the waves for 5 hours or more (even though I don't think its going to take them that long).

But back to if its Big!
Shell Va'a
A close race between OPT A and Lanikai (which will be a lot closer to Shell Va'a)
OPT B/ Venus Va'a with five or six other teams including Pa'a, Kailua, Lanikai 2, Outrigger, Hawaiian, and Lanakila Quicksilver (thats not in any order)

There is always the unforeseen in this race. Anything can go wrong and anything can happen. Thats one of the reasons why I Love this race so much.


#125 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 9:17am


Good Luck to Everyone!! Safe Crossing as well....

My Picks:

Wishlist, hope they finish this way.....
1. Lanikai #1
2. Lanikai #2, second crew
3. Team PAA, Manny and the boys.
4. Outrigger
5. anybody else from Hawaii....

Relistic Finish??....
1. OPT
2. Lanikai #1
3. Shell

Guarantee Finish??
The first 5 boats coming across the line will be Bradley Lightnings. You can take that to the Bank....

Jaws Out.

ps...still waiting on Rosehills boats.


#126 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 9:19am


Mooloolaba Masters will be giving all on their 15th crossing and going for Master Div win number 10.

Good luck to all.


#127 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 11:35am


Would you be on that team Rambo?


#128 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 11:57am


That is going to be one hell of a division. Kailua masters are flying right now and I know Cali is bringing a great team over as well.


#129 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 12:11pm


Mariano,
Faati Moorea was an 80 km change race. Check the results on my blog, you'll see how far OPT and other teams were from Shell...


#130 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 12:56pm


i couldn't see the results on your blog, but by the tone of your post, seems that Shell left OPT in the bushes...

what makes all the sense in tha world about how fast Tahiti teams are going is the fact that the distances are beyond most understandings, and at the same time, its crazy that the top Tahitian crews aproach this races as they were 1000mts sprints.

after a couple of comments of Emilli(she just raced Super Aito) i realized how powerfull is to paddle rudderless....

i wish i could have some specs that can help me shape a V1 down here......


#131 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 1:10pm


With all do respect to Mooloolaba and their winning streak, Team Livestrong from the Big Island will be aiming to win that and placing high overall.

Aloha


#132 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 6:36pm


1st 6:10:08 Shell Va’a
2nd 6:19:07 Paddling Connection
3rd 6:21:56 Team OPT
4th 6:23:06 Erai Va’a
5th 6:27:52 Pirae Va’a

80 kilometers = 49.7096954 miles


#133 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 7:36pm


"its crazy that the top Tahitian crews aproach this races as they were 1000mts sprints."

Isn't this the actual approach every crew/paddler should take for the Moloka'i Hoe ? I really wish more coaches would see it that way and coach, train and prepare their paddlers accordingly.


#134 Fri, 10/03/2008 - 8:58pm


Aloha paddle_easy,
a agree with you, my english is not perfect. what i really meant to say, THE TAHITIAN CREWS ACTUALLY DO THESE RACES AS THEY WERE SPRINTS
i am sure all the crews that race the Kaiwi train and prepare this way, but only a few can perform accordingly.


#135 Sat, 10/04/2008 - 3:52am


Some people need to know if the tahitians smoke during the race because if its true that means they're kicking way more ass than it looks.


#136 Sat, 10/04/2008 - 8:36am


JAYBIRD

I am still amazed to see how much resistance to what I SAW.It will be "almost" impossible this year. Arm-bands for every registered paddler, to be checked at start and finish. All official boats looking for someone without, garens you DQ'd if no moa.

Would not be surprised to see ANY crew that uses jet-skis get DQ'd.

There will be a crew of "adaptive" paddlers, men and women that will be entered. They will leave well ahead of official start. They will have a jet-ski to assist in changes. When you pass this crew give them a hand and toot your horn. "Pure Light", coached by Aka Hemmings need all the support they can get. Dey get my respect.

Unlike last year when Waimanalo dominated, the 55's will be tightly contested. The 50's also. At least Kamoa no need worry about Charlie Boy beating him this year. Last year was close, LOL.

My Top 5: Tahiti ( Shell or OPT)
Lanikai
Raven, Tapa, Kea, Alfred and the rest from Pa'a.
Tahiti
Tahiti
40's: No clue
50's: Kailua
Hui Nalu
55's: Too tight to call, Waimanalo, Hui Nalu and OCC will be battling.

Good Luck to all. Looking at good trades, tide starting to rise. Maybe not in time to help the leaders. Will be interesting.

Keizo sometimes mean is good. Glad to see you pay attention and jump in now and again. No offence intended, I know what i saw, will say no more. I sleep good at night. If i went into "Politics", no can sleep, dem guys stretch da truth.

Goto, try rest, relax. Whoeva u pouning, had it aready.

ALOHA


#137 Sat, 10/04/2008 - 2:13pm


Here's what I got:

1- Lanikai
2- Shell Va'a
3- OPT
4-PA'A
5-Outrigger
6-Livestrong Masters
7-Tahiti?
8- Kailua
9-Hui Nalu
10- Hawaiian
11-Lanakila/Quiksilver/Mudbrook
12-Lanikai 2
13-Outrigger Masters
14- Mooloolaba Masters
15-Keahiakahoe

Vegas here I come!


#138 Sat, 10/04/2008 - 6:04pm


1) OPT-Remember they were in a Striker last year
2) Shell Vaa
3) Lanikai
4) OPT/Shell-Combo Crew 2
5)PAA
6)Hawaiian
7) Kailua
8) New Zealand
9) Lanikai 2
10) Live Strong-Masters

After writing this, I still don't like it. Too many variables, but why not give it a try.


#139 Sun, 10/05/2008 - 5:11am


Does anybody have an idea of the number of crews expected for the men's race this year? I heard there might be an even larger drop than for the women's race.


#140 Sun, 10/05/2008 - 7:34pm


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