Paddler's Weight, OC1 Design And Performance

For those interested, a brief discussion about paddler's weight and boat performance:

http://oc1design.blogspot.com/2009/01/oc-1-current-designs-paddlers-weig...

How will OC 1 design change ?

Submitted by eckhart diestel on Mon, 01/19/2009 - 8:49am



This is a great comment for OC-1s:

"It would be optimal to have 2-3 sizes of the same design to serve the paddlers best. Competition kayaks and canoes have sizes for every 8-10 kg, S,M ,L ,XL (some even in SM ,ML,L,XL,XXL) as you can optimize the volume and reduce drag for that specific weight."

Everyone makes concessions on a boat fit in some way and it is assumed builder costs would balloon if OC-1's were geared more towards a personal fit. But, I wonder why no one has attempted to design a boat based on modular scale? Two molds sizes for one design.


#1 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 9:10am


Maybe measure the dimension of a current design per laser, enter the data into a design program, scale to weight, tweak for performance, have the plug milled&built, make a mold. Cost ? $ 10 - 20.000.
You would have to sell an extra ~ 10 boats to recover the cost ?


#2 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 9:22am


They could do it but it would make the canoes more expensive. The more makes, models, sizes, configurations there are means more equipment, time, molds, etc. I agree that its not that much more but an excuse to jack the price up nonetheless.


#3 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 9:36am


On the other hand, having more molds could increase the number of canoes being made. One has to wonder if builders view the high demand versus low supply as beneficial re maintaining an artificially high price for their product.


#4 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 9:41am


Development in this direction is probably slow because there is no world wide competition.
Why should a Mainland/Australian/European yacht builder build a Hawaiian canoe ?

On the other hand, Epic's is successful and not locally built.


#5 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 9:51am


The only way to make boats faster is either a larger facility, which apprently none of the local builders are really keen on. Or build them in China and I for one will never again paddle on anything not hand made from Hawaii. There are many others with my same frame of mind and as long as that continues the prices will stay as long as the waiting lists. Ive got about another year on my current canoe before I start dreading the money ill have to spend on a new one but I wouldnt have it any other way, unless they want to give me a discount. There just seems to be no substitute for the quality of an OC, Kai Waa, Kamanu Comp, or Tiger boat.


#6 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 10:06am


I guess we will see what happens. In the mid 90ies there was the idea to have a flat water as well as a big wave OC 1, but paddlers stuck with one boat.


#7 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 12:38pm


The three outrigger connection OC1 models ; Fuze , Fusion and Zephyr are each a different size canoe for different paddler weight .


#8 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 12:59pm


Fuzerider, sure, just as every boat has an optimal paddler's weight range. Personally I'd prefer that every boat design had a light-medium-heavy, optimized for performance.
And Zephyr/Fusion belong rather into the same group.

The simple fact that a boat has 'more volume' does not say everything about performance.
For race performance this is important, for recreational use it does not matter that much.

Boats should be customized as much as possible for competitive paddling. Why start with a - let's say 5 % - performance penalty ?

It does not take away from the joy of paddling, but figure the sport wants to be olympic, then it would matter.


#9 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 2:10pm


Actually, I have to say I think Fuze is right. The OC boats all seem to be way more geared toward surfing but do seem to be pretty much small, med, large versions with the Fuze maybe being the exception but still a boat geared toward surfing.

I would like a builder to study my paddling style then build a custom canoe and ama suited for me and my local paddling conditions but we cant all get what we want now can we??


#10 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 1:24pm


arent surfski's made to fit the paddler, dosent tiger do the same thing?

although it would seem harder to resell a canoe that was specifically made for one paddler.


#11 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 6:42pm


Eckhart,

I read your post. The last sentence...."....To have one single design for all weights limits the performance of the athletes."
I would disagree.


#12 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 8:02pm


As my old pappy would say ( its the man not the canoe )


#13 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 8:23pm


Quote from the discussion "For heavier paddlers rockered boats are better due to the rapid increase of volume with added weight, less wetted surface is induced that way."

Height is also a factor here that I is think significant. A boat will have a sweet spot for the rider to sit. Some will be larger some smaller, but you will alter the run of the canoe depending if it brings the bow up or drives it down.....


#14 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 8:39pm


Eckhart,

I don't have anything substantive to add to this discussion, but I thought I'd give you kudos for including Archimedes principle...

But I would agree in general way that size, displacement, sweet spot all matter...

I'm not sure what all goes into making a "form" or how much making a custom form would drive up the price. But since it looks like each Hawaiian canoe is being custom made anyway, it seems like it would be a benefit to have a couple of size options and fit them to the paddler. The question is what the increased cost would be.
But it sounds like certain makers (e.g. Kamanu composites...) aren't having any trouble selling boats...

"Catching up with the back of the pack"

Peter


#15 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 10:06pm


Bill, do you mind sharing your thoughts on why you disagree ? I am happy if I can add your opinion to the post.

Are you saying that a boat can be designed in a way that paddler's weight has only a minimal effect on performance ? How would you achieve that ?


#16 Mon, 01/19/2009 - 10:39pm


Eckhart, yes, a boat can be designed to carry any weight without compromising its performance. To elaborate, would divulge more than I can share at this time.

I will say, that an athlete must adapt to his/her equipment and become one. There is truth in martial arts philosophies. And in your earlier thread, Tiger hit the nail on the head by saying (paraphrasing here), a canoes weight is overrated.


#17 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 7:23am


Thank you Bill, I assumed that there are some 'secrets of the trade' involved.


#18 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 8:52am


There is way too much emphasis placed upon the design of canoes and the weight of the paddler they will support. If you are a good paddler you will be successful in many different canoes. If you are a poor paddler your results will be poor no matter which canoe you choose to purchase or paddle. The formula has not changed and will never change. It is 90% human, 10% equipment. If you are overweight and out of shape, your window for improvement rests upon yourself. There is no canoe that will help a paddler to improve their results if they are not willing to invest the time to change the engine. If you are wealthy enough to buy every canoe on the market then you can create your own formula and demonstrate how you picked up .007 % by using brand A instead of brand B.


#19 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 5:44pm


That puts it into perspective, Tommy, an absolutely correct reminder. There is hardly anybody more competent than you to judge this.

It is interesting that you have come to the conclusion that the 10 % do not matter, or '0.007 %' as you say.

Conditioning and design meet in performance, and I have little doubt that a 90/10 ratio is generally true.

However, it does not hurt to talk about the 10 %, if that is your interest. When you are building a boat and are trying to understand what feature may be responsible for what effect, it does not help to talk about conditioning.

With regards to more boat types: Why should someone wear size 8 shoes if his feet are size 10 ? Or, would you buy a bike for a marathon race with a frame to small/tall for you ?
I don't think that this is a disrespectful argument.


#20 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 7:32pm


Well put Tommy!

I like hearing all the boat info but I agree that some people stress too much about wether or not they would be 2 minutes faster after 10 miles with a different ama design or a boat geared more for their 10 lbs of extra weight. Alot of talk on why boat builders dont build more differnt types of boats but how many were available 5 years ago? 8 years ago? 10 years ago? Id say they are coming along fairly well considering how many only want canoes built by certain people.


#21 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 6:57pm


Yep, thanks Tommy, that petty much confirms what i said in the Pueo thread about surfing skills vs difference between boats. Of course manufacturers would like us to believe otherwise and that's ok to if it's done with honesty and integrity.

Rambo


#22 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 7:26pm


In my opinion the size difference in the shoes we are talking about isnt that big of a difference, especially when you consider that the difference in price could very easily be 10% and our shoes cost almost $4000.

Ive said before that I think, according to the nitty gritty, my canoe is too big for me. However, if it was say 4 to 6 inches shorter to perfectly fit my size, would it have the same glide/carry that I love so much in the production size? I dont know the answer to this question, just putting it out there. Maybe it would then im just wasting key strokes.


#23 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 7:48pm


If boat design accounts for 10 % of performance and you switch to a boat that fits you 10 % better than your old boat, then you may have a performance gain of 1 %, maybe a little more.

So it is a discussion about how much design matters. That is interesting in itself.
It is also interesting to know what design does. That is a different topic, imo.

I understand the argument brought up: many have an interest in paddling with a heart rate monitor - doesn't interest me at all; and a heart rate monitor doesn't bring you to the front of the pack.

You can still have an interest in exercise physiology, though.


#24 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 8:19pm


Interest and discussion is great, maybe some more boat designers and manufacturers will pop in here and join in if we behave our selves.

Rambo


#25 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 8:24pm


I think everyone knows (even Eckhart...!) that there is no substitute for practice and conditioning.

But what else are we going to talk about in a blog, after practice is over? Paddling music?! :)

cheers,

"Catching up with the back of the pack"

Peter


#26 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 8:27pm


There you go, grovpb4, there is always hope, no way to say it any better.


#27 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 10:43pm


Agreed Eckhart!

But I have to disagree about the heart rate monitor! Again, whole other forum.


#28 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 10:58pm


How about a simplified monitor:

aerobic threshold - breaking a sweat
anaerobic threshold - out of breath


#29 Tue, 01/20/2009 - 11:13pm


I like paddling music!@#$


#30 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 3:07am


After practice conversation is for me food and kicking back to the OCPaddler site for R&R


#31 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 5:14am


It is possible to have equipment that will move every entrant in a race, up the results ladder.


#32 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 7:21am


I was talking with a guy and he was talking about that video of that guy on a Kayak with that wing that lifted him out of the water. Imagen if you put a little one on the Ama. it would stop you from popping the ama up and flipping. also could lower the wetted surface area,and lowere the drag. but I'm not sure if you could still call this a Outrigger

http://ca.


#33 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 7:44am


WOW, that is one weird craft ;>

While the weight issue might not be a big deal for those who fall within the typical bell curve of the appropriate weight for a particular boat, it might be more important for those of us on the fringes...

I have the same problem in buying cycling or motorcycling gear: As a female, at 125-135 lbs, I typically fall 30-60 pounds below the design parameters for any particular piece of gear. The design of paddling/cycling gear might be hugely different if the designer were building for a much smaller, lighter person...

Cat


#34 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 8:01am


Eckhart,
Am I confused ? Was that you saying you are not interested in the HRM ? If So, I am VERY suprised.

For sure the smaller folks could have and deserve some better sized equipment for them.

Aloha,
pog


#35 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 8:39am


I dont understand the idea that there arent canoes for certain sizes. There are several canoes for smaller paddlers. Pegasus, Fuze, even Tigers new model is geared to the smaller paddlers. At the same time there are people of all sizes that love these very same canoes. Same with canoes designed for larger paddlers. There are people who are not large that know the water that can really do great things on these. Just like Tommy said, train hard. If a canoe feels relatively good and doesnt cause pain, and its overll design suits your normal paddling conditions, start getting the hours in and adjust your training. Train more, longer, harder, smarter. Try treaking your nutrition and see how much more energy you have to push yourself. It really seems like some want to plug in the boat and cruise.

Now I really have to ask Eck why he doesnt like HRM's?? I just barely started using one and only use it when its calm. The biggest thing it taught me was to not hit the water too fast. It keeps me at a pace and its amazing how much more strength and stamina I have after 60 to 80 minutes then before and ive only used it about 1/2 dozen times.


#36 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 9:16am


Have to agree with Tommy Conner if all that matters is paddle drive while a rudder takes care of direction control...... When the future "Hawaiian 6man canoe" is reduced to a similar thing/boat, and the steerer is nothing but a rudder, then the crafts shape and volume will generally seen to be of no great importance.
A good paddler or team will always make a canoe look to have top performance. But when paddler psyche and their ability needs to blend with the craft because of constant but subtle changes in the hydrodynamics of the combination, then things like displacement ratios take effect.


#37 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 9:23am


It has to be said too that people are adaptable, and the better the paddler the more adaptable they will be, so slight changes in hull shape need not be a big deal..........bearing in mind that good paddlers are never so heavy as to have much influence on displacement; Even the little hurricane performs as well as the paddler.


#38 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 9:40am


I think we are mixing up two different topics:

How much does boat design do to performance ?
We all agreed on ~ 90/10.

What are the effects of different design features ?
The original topic. Example: rudder or not, flare or not, etc..

In this thread quite a few of you seem to agree that design does not matter ?
So you are all on that old, heavy fiberglass canoe that was just availbale in someones backyard, as it was cheap and available and as good as anything else anyway ? I probably misunderstand what you are trying to say, because that is clearly not the case.


#39 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 10:04am


Onnopaddle - I have no special reasoning. I dont know about it in practice and am not interested to find out. Some people prefer lactate measurements. I am not interested in that either. Again no specific reason.
My reasoning: after many years of doing athletics you more or less know your response to exercise.
HRM and lactate guided training are at the high end, probably very good if you want to win the Kaiwi channel crossing.
Also Garmin - I know I would train more effectively with it; but I decided that is more valuable to look at the ocean to see what the waves do than looking at my feet trying to read numbers.
I am ignorant about these things so far.

It would be nice to have some people post detailed experience and performance improvement with HRM training here on ocpaddler.

I mentioned it here because some paddlers will have the same indifferent attitude towards boat design.


#40 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 10:19am


In regards to HRM's, I'm with Eckhart in that not everyone really needs it to tell them if they're pushing it hard, not hard enough or too hard. At the races, your adrenaline will be pumping anyways and if you've been training hard like you're racing, it won't matter that much.

Learning how to use one and using it while training for the first time can take some time to get use to it. If you started to use one before the season starts, it may already be good for you to keep doing it. If you haven't, it may not be wise to start if you've already got a training regimen already in place unless you want to make changes to it by adding in something else. That's just my opinion about it.

I already know that I'm too far set in my ways to jump on the HRM bandwagon at this point.

If you can make it work for you, more power to you. As you can always just let the rest of us Dinosaurs just continue without it.

As for the topic, paddler weight can be an issue if you're out of shape, but if the paddler can make the necessary changes to lose some excess weight they can get better.

Learning to adapt to their equipment to do better or to change to a different craft is just something that some will have to do. I know sometimes the availability of various crafts is not an option for some people and they'll just have to make do the best they can with what they have.

Some people can do just fine with older models and beat the hell out of some of us that have the most newest crafts. I know I see some of the same paddlers that can easily get a newer canoe, but instead are still on an older model for their own choice. Who knows, maybe they have tried one of the newer models and find they are not right for them or don't perform as great for them.


#41 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 10:31am


Eck, I dont think anyone thinks the old fiberglass is the way to go as far as 1 mans but there are alot of really good canoes on the market right now. In any production product on the planet, the more options there are the higher the price will be, simple fact.

As far as HRM's go I think there are 2 main types of training here in Hawaii - conditioning and surfing. Not everyone gets to do down wind runs every day. Especially on the Big Island we have more than our fair share of flat days. I think the HRM is key on the flat days but when the wind is up, ditch the HRM and its all reading water at that point. I cant say I agree with GPS because the water is never the same. You just have to get in it and compare to your competition. Who care what your average speed is if the next guy is still faster?Some says the water moves you faster and some days slower but it all boils down to the other people around you right? If your the only one around then its all what feels good no matter your speed.


#42 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 10:37am


Eckhart,

I know .. but you ???

With all your data gathering / R&D and obvious love of analysis. NOT talking down to you, just suprised you would not factor this in as it an EZ way to see how efficient things are by standardizing the 'engine' to a degree.

Hand slapping forehead : 0

Aloha,
pog


#43 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 12:38pm


While HRMs provide valuable info, it is far from the full story. You could paddle the exact same course, with the exact same conditions, on the same canoe and get completely different heart rates depending upon how hot it is, how hydrated you are, how tired or rested you are.

The true measure is wattage. All pro cyclists have gone to training by watt/power meters. Unfortunately no one has developed one for a canoe (and the bike ones are pretty pricey).


#44 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 1:16pm


Hand slapping forehead - not the first time, not the last time. Sometimes hand slapping back of head, too.

pog, we need some posters here that give us a detailed report about their performance improvement and use of HRM.

I'd like to see a good and competent training plan discussed. Tommy Connor had a great one man program during summer two years ago, assissting the OC 6 preparations.

For now it would be great to have some guidelines for the rest of the season. I am sure there would be a place for HRM, lactate or even time taking/record keeping.
Everybody could then pick and chose from the guidelines.
I'll open a new thread for that.


#45 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 1:25pm


I used the HR monitor and GPS to better understand what was happening to me in a race and for maximizing a flat-water paddling technique that enabled a faster time trial. But once in the ocean, all that changes. I think Larry Cain came to the same conclusion.

Much more to learn watching Karel surfing.

Here is a quick observation on the difference between the top surfers and the rest of us.

The top guys all ..... Paddle > Drop in > Hold > Scout > Surf to next wave > Paddle > Drop in > Hold > Scout ..............>>>>>

Explanation

  • Scout ......... read the ocean/anticipate route
  • Drop in ..... catch runner
  • Hold ...... maximize use of wave energy at surfing position usually top of wave or bowl section
  • Paddle .... maximum thrust to attain next drop in or maintain momentum
  • Observation

    The top paddlers all spend more time in the Hold position, where as the average paddler spends more time in the paddling phase, usually wasting energy paddling into the back of the wave in front and total missing the hold phase

    Watch any race video and you will see this, no wonder i bonk and have no energy left at 3/4 way mark in a race and can't chase bumps anymore . Sound familiar?

    Knowing when to hold 'em and when to chase 'em is the key to surfing runners

    R


    #46 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 1:26pm


    I personally dont use the HRM to know what my HR is when I paddle. I use it to maintain a 75%, 80%, whatever HR max for a duration of time. Its the only way to maintain a constant output of energy while ocean paddling since everything else is variable. Its all good but im told and believe its ONLY for conditioning. I have the privilege of getting to paddle with some above average guys and they all say and do exactly what Rambo describes. That method just takes a way long time to perfect. I think for everyone else its who catches the most runners. For the top guys its who misses the least.


    #47 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 9:44pm


    Agreed on above ...

    HRM + GPS + Butt ...

    Nice to play with if testing various paddles/lengths/rudders/position/technique on the same day for ex. You can really fine tune equipment and learn about yourself.

    my .02.
    signed, a guy who this stuff only seems to last for 3x before it gets fried and before he learned how to use them.


    #48 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 11:15pm


    Yeah, for whatever reason my HRM seems to always turn off about 15 minutes before the end of my run anyway. The only dependable equipment I have is my canoe and paddle. Im still working on the motor.....


    #49 Wed, 01/21/2009 - 11:22pm


    Did you guys realize any performance gain that you would definitely attribute to HRM versus more time on the water etc. ?


    #50 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 7:39am


    Under steady conditions, I found a HRM will make for a faster time by setting a lower limit. You don't paddle any harder at the top end, but you catch it instantly when you unconciously start to ease off. With the HRM you're not increasing the peaks, you're filling in the valleys. Steadier effort equals faster time.


    #51 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 7:57am


    Helping to double check things as during above trials for consistancy in HRM + GPS + BUTT ... experiments.

    Ex.

    O.K,. I'm in the same water as a minute ago with a longer paddle @ the same HR ... but my speed is faster or my effort is lower for same speed.


    #52 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 9:33am


    I see. I used a Garmin once. It was surprising how much the speed dropped once the water became more agitated and it helped indeed to keep the speed above at least 6 mph.

    Meanwhile I was constantly checking the GPS and lost sight of the surroundings.

    In addition it took me so much energy to keep up the 6 mph that I figured that my best bet to improve on average speed would be to improve water reading/surfing skills.

    Now I make it a point to try to read the water first, try to keep my head up to scan the ocean 20 - 30 yards ahead, too.
    That may slow me down for now, but I think that it is the right thing to do.
    Karel does not use much strength in that little clip - there has to be a way to get a little closer to that.


    #53 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 10:31am


    I think we have to double our effort's


    #54 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 11:10am


    Nice one Mulus ... I like the simplicity of that.

    Aloha,
    pog


    #55 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 11:32am


    Jibofo,
    Your comment about the heart rate monitor "filling in the valleys" sounds spot-on to me. Another way to keep yourself from falling off of your pace (stealing this from a guideline from running) is to keep a pace for which a conversation with a partner is slightly strained; i.e. you can only get a few words out at a time then you have to take a couple of breaths. If you can have a comfortable conversation (with yourself if you're alone...) then pick up the pace...


    #56 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 12:03pm


    It's not advisable to race with a HR monitor or GPS in view, it's just there for post race analysis. To do it any other way would defeat the purpose. Thing of them as Training Aids not Racing Aids.

    Cheers Rambo


    #57 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 12:15pm


    Not sure if I agree with you Rambo. Whereas a high level athlete may be very in tune with their body, for many people a HRM may let them push harder. The knowledge that one can hold a certain heart rate regardless of how much it hurts, the ability to fill in the previously mentioned valleys, the ability to be able to push for a higher and higher heart rate. Certainly a HRM doesn't guarantee a better result for everyone but it can be a valid tool.

    I also feel that many people who train with HRMs feel a bit at a loss when they are without them.

    All that said, I used them extensively for bike racing, but rarely on the canoe.


    #58 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 12:44pm


    Heart rate changes with fluid status, exhaustion, emotion etc. ; if you get dehydrated, your heart rate may go up. You may end up misinterpreting what's happening to your body.
    I think I am leaning towards trainings aid, too


    #59 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 2:36pm


    "No GPS or metronome in the boat for races." We had an Aussie coach that said no electronics in the boat for races.

    I checked around. That may be an Aussie rule, but I could not find that rule in any America document.

    Are electronics against the rules? Where?
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    YankeeHo'okele
    "Anyone can steer the ship when the sea is calm" - Syrus Publilius


    #60 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 3:06pm


    Agree w/ Rambo. When you're looking down at a GPS while paddling, your eyes and head are not where they need to be. Didn't Jr. say he's looking 50 yards ahead while surfing?


    #61 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 3:19pm


    As ive said before, I could really care less what my heart rate is when I paddle. I only use the HRM to keep my energy at a constant level. It also helps me to focus on my technique and chasing the small current movements in flat water. I only use it in flat water. I dont think id ever use a GPS especially for speed. The speed is controlled by the ocean. So looking down and seeing that your going faster today is not necessarily an indication that your getting any faster. Plus, I agree with Rambo, you need to focus on the water.

    Eck, I have noticed an improvement since using a HRM. Now when I go out wether it be in swell or flats, im not trying to hammer all the time. it really helped me to maintain and use longer harder strokes for catching swells and things instead of whacking away all the time. Its just helped be much more energy efficient overall. Like in Dannys video he rarely uses the 3 quick short burst strokes. He picks up the pace from time to time but keeps it long and with the exact same form.

    My 2 cents which are really only worth 1.


    #62 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 5:22pm


    Rambo said:

    Knowing when to hold ‘em and when to chase ‘em is the key to surfing runners

    This totally makes me think of The Gambler by Kenny Rogers. Any chance we can get you to sing us a version applicable to surfing a canoe Rambo?


    #63 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 5:30pm


    Agree w/ Rambo. When you’re looking down at a GPS while paddling, your eyes and head are not where they need to be. Didn’t Jr. say he’s looking 50 yards ahead while surfing?

    You don't need to look down at the GPS or HRM, you can program your garmin to beep when your heart rate reches a preset max or min... you can still look 50yrd ahead while listening to the beeps.


    #64 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 8:58pm


    I seldom look at my GPS when I do have it on during training or at a race. Too busy watching the water ahead and paddling. When I do look it's to see how far I've gone so far.


    #65 Thu, 01/22/2009 - 10:39pm


    Who said you have to look at your HR monitor to get good feedback from it? When racing, I set mine at my Anaerobic Threshold and it beeps at me if I exceed my AnT. Obviously, if I exceed my AnT for too long, lactic acid will become problematic and I'll have to slow down until I can purge the excess from my muscles. To avoid this, I let my HR monitor beep at me when I'm pushing harder than my body can maintain for the race distance. I can still look around, pick my line, AND get feedback from my HR monitor. Plus, I can choose to exceed my AnT for short bursts, wave catching, trying to break a competitor... but I know I can only maintain it for a couple of minutes before being forced physiologically to back off. Having that feedback helps me race at my upper limit better and helps me race smarter.

    Here's the kicker though... I use my HR monitor religiously, so I know exactly where my upper limit (AnT) is and how long I can go at that limit or beyond. It's definitely a training tool, but it can be a very valuable racing tool too, if used properly.


    #66 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 7:32am


    GPS/HRM during a race may give you an advantage. Do you think it is fair game to use them ?


    #67 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 7:51am


    Being karel jr gives you an unfair advantage...


    #68 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 9:50am


    What about sun glasses Eckhart ? definitely an advantage :)


    #69 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 10:45am


    As long as they are not on the bottom of the ocean...


    #70 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 10:19pm


    Please register or login to post a comment.

    Page loaded in 0.321 seconds.