For those interested, a brief discussion about paddler's weight and boat performance:
http://oc1design.blogspot.com/2009/01/oc-1-current-designs-paddlers-weig...
How will OC 1 design change ?
Submitted by eckhart diestel on Mon, 01/19/2009 - 8:49am
For those interested, a brief discussion about paddler's weight and boat performance:
http://oc1design.blogspot.com/2009/01/oc-1-current-designs-paddlers-weig...
How will OC 1 design change ?
Submitted by eckhart diestel on Mon, 01/19/2009 - 8:49am
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Im not saying to outlaw anything but a HRM is a personal device unlike a GPS.
dmehling, sounds like you have that thing fine tuned. I havent used mine to that level but I know there are others that do
#71 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 1:20pm
eckhart, i feel that using a heartrate monitor would not give an unfair advantage, because it's kindof like what you said. it could take your attention away from surfing the waves, but at the same time, if it lets you know what your doing it could be helpful.
my coach who set up my program told me to get a heartrate monitor, before he even wrote me up anything. his reasoning was that when you have a heart rate monitor, you cant lie to yourself. and the lying could go either way, you could not be working hard enough, or you could be working too hard and telling yourself that it's only 80% or whatever.
in my opinion though i'm not really sure about my garmin, because one time it told me that my hr was 120 bpm for like 15 minutes. maybe my strap was pinching on my jersey or something, because that didnt seem right.
#72 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 3:39pm
Good point, Tyler. I was actually more thinking about the GPS - in my own experience it was very helpful to know whether I had to pick up the pace or not.
It would give you about as much advantage as having a supporter on a boat next to you telling you how you are doing, your average speed, your trend etc..
Not that I mind, but I think it may be an advantage.
#73 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 4:29pm
In regards to advantages, if you train in the same place as the race course, or know the course so well, you've got the advantage over all the other paddlers who never been/done that course before.
If you got a watch/timer and you know the distance, you can surmise the same thing without a GPS unit.
Just knowing you're behind some of the other paddlers that you normally are in front of, also tells you that you're sandbagging and need to pick up the pace.
So, should having done that course DQ you from that race? No wearing a watch, or keeping track of your other paddlers abilities allowed since they give you an advantage as well?
Too many variables already that you shouldn't have to worry about such little things like HRM or GPS. That just takes the fun out of paddling. Sounds like some people are just making more excuses of why he/she/they beat you. We already have the discussion of the type of boat one group/person are using, do we need even more excuses?
#74 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 9:04pm
#75 Fri, 01/23/2009 - 10:29pm
I don't know how you guys can wear those HRM straps, because the last time I went wear them to one race, everybody when tease me that I stay wearing one bra, brah! So I so ashame, that I go put on one shirt, but then the transmitter send all kind crazy signals because of the salt water. As why hard, no work for me. More easy go put your fingers to your throat and look your watch, because recovery time is the most important. How you figure?
#76 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 12:21am
"Too many variables already that you shouldn’t have to worry about such little things like HRM or GPS. That just takes the fun out of paddling. Sounds like some people are just making more excuses of why he/she/they beat you. We already have the discussion of the type of boat one group/person are using, do we need even more excuses?"
Who was making excuses? Different things make paddling fun for different people. I have fun knowing that im able to hold a higher pace for a longer period of time as my training progresses. Neither of these two devices directly make anyone faster. A heart rate monitor purely tells you how hard your actually working, period. I dont see much of an advantage in a race for either because you are racing against your friends, not the clock. And id love to have a laugh at the guy who blames his poor placing on his HRM/GPS but I dont recall anyone saying anything like that here. Maybe using these enhanced your training enabling you to spank someone you normally didnt in the past. Maybe they beat you because they use em and you dont?? Never know will we? Either way, every time I go in the water its better than the time before even when I wear my bra strap! Sorry but im just not keen on anyone saying what takes the fun out of my paddling.
#77 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 12:40am
It was in response to Eck's post about these devices giving someone an unfair advantage.
I'm all for whatever you take or use is up to you, but for someone to say some of these things shouldn't be allowed when there are no rules against using them is what takes the fun out of it.
#78 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 5:09am
My grandfather would say( if there something you can do to make your canoe go faster, do it. and when it's all over you'll have no regrets.) I try a GPS a few times. and a heart thing on the tread master at the gym . but if you want a unfair advantage be a student of the water . currents waves tides land and under water configuration. I guarantee you the moor you learn the faster you'll go.
a short video I took while out yesterday ,don't let the sun fool you were in the minuses here
http://ca.
#79 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 7:02am
E7M - if you read my post carefully you can see that I am asking a question, please do not turn that into a statement.
Some things will give you an advantage.
Whether their use is fair or unfair, is an opinion.
Example: wake riding. Fair game or not ?
You write that discussing boat design falls under excuse, do you really mean that ? Maybe I don't understand your post well.
When we were younger, we were spending all summers in the ocean in France. My friend got some self made surfboard from a local guy, we couldn't afford a better one. For several summers we tried to use that thing successfully, it would not work, and we were in the water all day long.
Years later, here in Hawaii, I got my hands on a nice long board. On my second try I rode a nice, easy wave. The long board simply has the volume.
Design matters for performance, whether you race or whether you simply want to enjoy paddling.
It matters at the beginners level, stability will allow you to perform.
At the intermediate level, it may allow you be more effective, and at the top level, as races are not won by a great margin.
HRM/GPS don't really interest me, because I do not have a problem to condition myself.
What I like about paddling is the skill, in the flat as well as in the waves - same joy for me.
People of average built may not understand this, because they are less effected, the boats are designed for average built paddlers.
The argument that it is the motor and not the boat is usually nonsense, imo.
I am sure that Junior can paddle faster than most people even with a 46" paddle, but that is not the point when someone asks about ideal paddle length.
Lanikai CC OC 6 switches from an improved Mirage to a Bradley just before the Molokai Hoe - can you explain that to me ?
#80 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 7:55am
I think many of us can easily see the value of different sized boats for different sized people.
As Eck points out, why not have every advantage you can in order to paddle well, including a well-trained engine/paddler, armed with a properly sized paddle and boat?
As you get more women in the sport, (something I imagine the brothers wouldn't mind, so you can all stop belly aching about how your wife doesn't understand your burning need to have 4 boats ;), you will notice how rare it is to find a woman who is "average" sized by the current standards of boat builders. Just a few of us tall beefy gals fit the mold. Bear in mind, an average sized woman is a full 30 pounds lighter and 5 to 6 inches shorter than the "average man" boat builders sound like they are working towards. And I have friends that are under 5 feet tall and weigh under a buck. Think about where they end up sitting on even a Hurricane due to leg length... and their boats' waterline.
I would be interested in knowing the ratio of women buying OC1s to men... anecdotally right now I'd say it is maybe only 1:5 women to men in my club, though we have a lot more women paddling OC6 who I hope will start paddling 1s. But if those ratios change, then the averages being used for boat building or the boats available will need to change.
That said, I know many canoe builders are deeply passionate about building a quality product that suits the needs of paddlers. They can only build what their customers are willing to pay for.
Someone suggested that we don't have more boat sizes because of expense, and much of the expense is in building the molds and getting set up to do various boat sizes. But I'm guessing the other issue is cost of unsold inventory. If suddenly you are making a boat model in S, M, L, you have to carry all those varied sizes, stock them all, and provide them to your distributors in order to supply demand. And that means more money tied up in unsold boats at any one time, for boat builders and sellers. And possibly resale value of the less common sized boats might be lower because it would suit fewer paddlers, and therefore be harder to find a buyer for?
Maybe the boat builders could stock a standard size, and then do nonstandard sizes in batches as semi-custom orders with a slightly higher price, a few times a year?
#81 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 8:54am
That would require information that I don't know or have to even try to explain their reason for them doing that. Maybe they felt more comfortable with the Bradley over the new Mirage. Maybe since the top competitors were all using them and decided on using the same model and keep that variable the same (i.e. levelling the playing field).
#82 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 11:35am
I don't know it either, but it suggests that other things than motor' is considered, too.
And we agreed higher up in the thread that this could account for ~ 10 %.
HRM/GPS - not even sure if that gives you an overall advantage in a race.
#83 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 11:53am
To me, my GPS is just used as a tracking tool to see along the way (afterwards mostly) of where I was going smoothly along or where I know/felt I was going slower. Sometimes the results say otherwise in that I was going faster when I felt slow. The conditions are never the same, but it's nice to see how I did for certain areas.
#84 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 12:09pm
Valerie,
I have been messing about with kids and less-than-giant size stuff for a long time and I understand where you are coming from.
My wife wanted a paddleboard so I dropped everything to do one for her ... she loves it ... NOW she just told me she is interested in a canoe ....
Yep, anyone can sit on a Hurricane and it will go, but you 'guys' deserve some stuff that is scaled/designed right for you.
Aloha,
pog
#85 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 5:27pm
When does weight become an advantage in an oc1? It would make sense that once on the wave heavier objects run down them faster... so maybe heavier has it's moments too.....
#86 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 5:32pm
Just paddle - here is a nice write up:
http://www.roguepaddler.com/weight2.htm
a complete discussion of the effects of weight on a kayak. A little long, but good.
The author gives some examples where weight is helpful, ...
"This is assuming, of course, that you do not load the kayak beyond its maximum design capacity, in which case performance might suffer severely."
#87 Sat, 01/24/2009 - 7:21pm